<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Calvinism, Arminianism, Open Theism and the 3 Friends of Job</title>
	<atom:link href="http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/2008/04/calvinism-arminianism-open-theism-and-the-3-friends-of-job/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/2008/04/calvinism-arminianism-open-theism-and-the-3-friends-of-job/</link>
	<description>A family, following Jesus, praying we will pave paths others will follow into a missional lifestyle</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 04:29:49 -0700</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Allan Svensson</title>
		<link>http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/2008/04/calvinism-arminianism-open-theism-and-the-3-friends-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-2876</link>
		<dc:creator>Allan Svensson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/?p=770#comment-2876</guid>
		<description>Hi.
I found your Web Site by Google
And I wish you the best you can get,
the peace of God through Jesus Christ.

Welcome to visit my Site.
Allan Svensson, Sweden

Why does the revival tarry?  It is because God&#039;s
people tarry to obey the powerful command of
the Lord in Rev. 18:4.  This is the most powerful 
revival message of the Lord to his people in our time.
www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/INDEX.HTM

As in the days of Lot, it is now. Lot was not interested 
to leave Sodom. God sent two angels to rescue him,
and they must persuade him to leave Sodom. When 
he yet lingered, one of the angels said to him: 
&quot;Flee for your life sake ...&quot;    
Just like as Lot, God&#039;s people are not interested to 
leave the great Babylon, but finally they must flee 
for their life from there.
www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/PAGE88.HTM

God&#039;s people are destroyed for lack of knowledge
because their preachers have rejected knowledge.
Hosea 4:6-11.  Instead to preaching the truth of the 
Assembly of God, they have preached lies about the 
Assembly of God. The Pentecostalists have abused
the expression &quot;Assembly of God&quot; and used it as a 
name of their church.

Evil spirits in the churches
www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/SPIRITS.HTM

What does hinder the Antichrist to appear?
What is the Restrainer?
www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/MESSAGE.HTM#Antichrist

Why did the Pentecostal Revival take an end?
www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/CRISIS.HTM

The coming revival, a nameless revival
www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/POWERFUL.HTM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi.<br />
I found your Web Site by Google<br />
And I wish you the best you can get,<br />
the peace of God through Jesus Christ.</p>
<p>Welcome to visit my Site.<br />
Allan Svensson, Sweden</p>
<p>Why does the revival tarry?  It is because God&#8217;s<br />
people tarry to obey the powerful command of<br />
the Lord in Rev. 18:4.  This is the most powerful<br />
revival message of the Lord to his people in our time.<br />
<a href="http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/INDEX.HTM" rel="nofollow">http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/INDEX.HTM</a></p>
<p>As in the days of Lot, it is now. Lot was not interested<br />
to leave Sodom. God sent two angels to rescue him,<br />
and they must persuade him to leave Sodom. When<br />
he yet lingered, one of the angels said to him:<br />
&#8220;Flee for your life sake &#8230;&#8221;<br />
Just like as Lot, God&#8217;s people are not interested to<br />
leave the great Babylon, but finally they must flee<br />
for their life from there.<br />
<a href="http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/PAGE88.HTM" rel="nofollow">http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/PAGE88.HTM</a></p>
<p>God&#8217;s people are destroyed for lack of knowledge<br />
because their preachers have rejected knowledge.<br />
Hosea 4:6-11.  Instead to preaching the truth of the<br />
Assembly of God, they have preached lies about the<br />
Assembly of God. The Pentecostalists have abused<br />
the expression &#8220;Assembly of God&#8221; and used it as a<br />
name of their church.</p>
<p>Evil spirits in the churches<br />
<a href="http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/SPIRITS.HTM" rel="nofollow">http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/SPIRITS.HTM</a></p>
<p>What does hinder the Antichrist to appear?<br />
What is the Restrainer?<br />
<a href="http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/MESSAGE.HTM#Antichrist" rel="nofollow">http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/MESSAGE.HTM#Antichrist</a></p>
<p>Why did the Pentecostal Revival take an end?<br />
<a href="http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/CRISIS.HTM" rel="nofollow">http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/CRISIS.HTM</a></p>
<p>The coming revival, a nameless revival<br />
<a href="http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/POWERFUL.HTM" rel="nofollow">http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/POWERFUL.HTM</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bryan Riley</title>
		<link>http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/2008/04/calvinism-arminianism-open-theism-and-the-3-friends-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-1876</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 18:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/?p=770#comment-1876</guid>
		<description>John B., well said.  I think each extreme is like riding a horse with a loose saddle and beginning to lean to the right or the left and the saddle keeps slipping until you eventually fall off.  We need to rest in the paradox of Who God Is, and I think the answer lies in the Cross of Christ.  That&#039;s part of the glory of the Cross and the amazing God whom we serve!

Thank you for commenting and adding to the conversation.  

I&#039;d add that I think extreme Calvinism is no different than fatalism and Islamic beliefs about God.  Extreme open theism is no different than making ourselves god.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John B., well said.  I think each extreme is like riding a horse with a loose saddle and beginning to lean to the right or the left and the saddle keeps slipping until you eventually fall off.  We need to rest in the paradox of Who God Is, and I think the answer lies in the Cross of Christ.  That&#8217;s part of the glory of the Cross and the amazing God whom we serve!</p>
<p>Thank you for commenting and adding to the conversation.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d add that I think extreme Calvinism is no different than fatalism and Islamic beliefs about God.  Extreme open theism is no different than making ourselves god.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Bradley</title>
		<link>http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/2008/04/calvinism-arminianism-open-theism-and-the-3-friends-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-1875</link>
		<dc:creator>John Bradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 13:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/?p=770#comment-1875</guid>
		<description>I just came across your post while browsing. I think the arguments over calvinism and arminianism hinge on a misunderstanding of the eternal nature of God. When we ask &quot;did God know I was going to repent and believe before I did so?&quot; we are forgetting that God is eternal, not time-bound as we are. So the words &#039;before&#039; and &#039;after&#039; don&#039;t apply to God. God is in the eternal present.
I do think the two positions need each other, though, if they are to avoid either indifference or having to re-write Scripture. Arminianism alone means I can decide to become a Christian any time I choose so I may as well have a good time as a sinner first! Calvinism alone means if I&#039;m one of the elect the Hound of Heaven will get me sooner or later but if I&#039;m not, there&#039;s nothing I can do about it. Calvinism alone has to rewrite 2 Peter 3 9 as &#039;God is not willing that all should perish but that the elect should come to repentance&#039;. When Jesus says (John 15.16) &#039;you did not choose me but I chose you&#039;, Arminianism alone would need to say, &#039;No, Lord, we did actually choose you... and we bet you&#039;re glad we did!&#039;
So election and free will is a paradox which we need to hold in tension and not slide into one extreme or the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just came across your post while browsing. I think the arguments over calvinism and arminianism hinge on a misunderstanding of the eternal nature of God. When we ask &#8220;did God know I was going to repent and believe before I did so?&#8221; we are forgetting that God is eternal, not time-bound as we are. So the words &#8216;before&#8217; and &#8216;after&#8217; don&#8217;t apply to God. God is in the eternal present.<br />
I do think the two positions need each other, though, if they are to avoid either indifference or having to re-write Scripture. Arminianism alone means I can decide to become a Christian any time I choose so I may as well have a good time as a sinner first! Calvinism alone means if I&#8217;m one of the elect the Hound of Heaven will get me sooner or later but if I&#8217;m not, there&#8217;s nothing I can do about it. Calvinism alone has to rewrite 2 Peter 3 9 as &#8216;God is not willing that all should perish but that the elect should come to repentance&#8217;. When Jesus says (John 15.16) &#8216;you did not choose me but I chose you&#8217;, Arminianism alone would need to say, &#8216;No, Lord, we did actually choose you&#8230; and we bet you&#8217;re glad we did!&#8217;<br />
So election and free will is a paradox which we need to hold in tension and not slide into one extreme or the other.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim B.</title>
		<link>http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/2008/04/calvinism-arminianism-open-theism-and-the-3-friends-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-1867</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 01:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/?p=770#comment-1867</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m having a hard time having this conversation in two places at once.  I&#039;ve responded to you at my blog.  If you wish to permanently move the conversation here, let me know.

&lt;em&gt;Jim B.&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://blatzkrieg.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/lakeland-revival-roman-catholic-pilgrimages/&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Lakeland Revival &amp; Roman Catholic Pilgrimages&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m having a hard time having this conversation in two places at once.  I&#8217;ve responded to you at my blog.  If you wish to permanently move the conversation here, let me know.</p>
<p><em>Jim B.&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://blatzkrieg.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/lakeland-revival-roman-catholic-pilgrimages/' rel="nofollow">Lakeland Revival &amp; Roman Catholic Pilgrimages</a></em></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bryan Riley</title>
		<link>http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/2008/04/calvinism-arminianism-open-theism-and-the-3-friends-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-1866</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/?p=770#comment-1866</guid>
		<description>I just saw where you provided a dictionary defintion of doctrine over at your site.  Yes, I agree that the word means &quot;teaching.&quot;  I suppose then the next question is, what was Jesus&#039; teaching?  How did he teach His disciples?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just saw where you provided a dictionary defintion of doctrine over at your site.  Yes, I agree that the word means &#8220;teaching.&#8221;  I suppose then the next question is, what was Jesus&#8217; teaching?  How did he teach His disciples?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bryan Riley</title>
		<link>http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/2008/04/calvinism-arminianism-open-theism-and-the-3-friends-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-1865</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/?p=770#comment-1865</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t respond to your question until I understand how you define doctrine, Jim.  Please help me there and let me know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t respond to your question until I understand how you define doctrine, Jim.  Please help me there and let me know.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim B.</title>
		<link>http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/2008/04/calvinism-arminianism-open-theism-and-the-3-friends-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-1864</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/?p=770#comment-1864</guid>
		<description>Brian,

I responded to your similar comment at my blog here:

http://blatzkrieg.wordpress.com/2007/09/18/why-wham-ywam/#comment-1098

&quot;As to what kind of faith you and I would have… one would say that as faith comes from God we would have the same faith, especially if one were a Calvinist. But that is not what you mean by your sentence there.&quot;

No, it wasn&#039;t.  While God certainly accomplishes all that He purposes to accomplish, He doesn&#039;t do so in a vacuum.  He uses means to reach His ends, and for 2000 years, He has used various &quot;self-righteous dividers&quot; to safeguard and persevere the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.

I would reposit the question: What if Athanasius had taken your tack regarding doctrine and unity?  After all, haven&#039;t professing believers been arguing about and stumbling over the doctrine of the trinity  for the last 2000 years?

God Bless

&lt;em&gt;Jim B.&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://blatzkrieg.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/a-self-inflicted-crisis/&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A Self-Inflicted Crisis?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian,</p>
<p>I responded to your similar comment at my blog here:</p>
<p><a href="http://blatzkrieg.wordpress.com/2007/09/18/why-wham-ywam/#comment-1098" rel="nofollow">http://blatzkrieg.wordpress.com/2007/09/18/why-wham-ywam/#comment-1098</a></p>
<p>&#8220;As to what kind of faith you and I would have… one would say that as faith comes from God we would have the same faith, especially if one were a Calvinist. But that is not what you mean by your sentence there.&#8221;</p>
<p>No, it wasn&#8217;t.  While God certainly accomplishes all that He purposes to accomplish, He doesn&#8217;t do so in a vacuum.  He uses means to reach His ends, and for 2000 years, He has used various &#8220;self-righteous dividers&#8221; to safeguard and persevere the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.</p>
<p>I would reposit the question: What if Athanasius had taken your tack regarding doctrine and unity?  After all, haven&#8217;t professing believers been arguing about and stumbling over the doctrine of the trinity  for the last 2000 years?</p>
<p>God Bless</p>
<p><em>Jim B.&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://blatzkrieg.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/a-self-inflicted-crisis/' rel="nofollow">A Self-Inflicted Crisis?</a></em></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bryan Riley</title>
		<link>http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/2008/04/calvinism-arminianism-open-theism-and-the-3-friends-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-1861</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 05:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/?p=770#comment-1861</guid>
		<description>Jim B., 

Thank you for your comment.  I apologize for the brevity of my post, which may be why you write as you do.  Although, even the aspect you question with your quotation follows the opening and primary paragraph where I say:  

&quot;I just have to wonder if all the time we spend trying to understand the whys of God,His work in this world, the free will of man, and the “problem” of evil, is much ado about nothing and more akin to us being the philosophizing friends of Job. At the end of the day I think we can - and must - rest in the cross of Christ rather than trying to proclaim to the world that we have a perfect understanding of the work of God.&quot; 

Please note the &quot;I just have to wonder&quot; and the &quot;perfect understanding of the work of God.&quot;  And consider Psalm 103, Isaiah 55, Job 42, Psalm 131.  

Please know that I said &quot;how God works in this world&quot; rather than the &quot;sovereignty of God&quot; because people have different definitions for the sovereignty of God - a loaded phrase and one that I didn&#039;t think would be helpful to understanding unless I unpacked it.  I would agree with you that we know that God works in the world, that God created the world, that God is ever present and holding all things together, and so much more.  However, exactly how his mind works and how it impacts our wills isn&#039;t spelled out in scripture - not in a way that our finite minds can understand in my opinion.  In fact, that is why we&#039;ve been arguing that point, biblically, for a couple thousand years.  Don&#039;t you think?

As to what kind of faith you and I would have... one would say that as faith comes from God we would have the same faith, especially if one were a Calvinist.  But that is not what you mean by your sentence there.  

You implicitly accuse me of being laissez faire toward doctrine.  I am not nor did I intend to be read in that way.  I would simply ask what you mean by doctrine.  

So, what do you mean by doctrine?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim B., </p>
<p>Thank you for your comment.  I apologize for the brevity of my post, which may be why you write as you do.  Although, even the aspect you question with your quotation follows the opening and primary paragraph where I say:  </p>
<p>&#8220;I just have to wonder if all the time we spend trying to understand the whys of God,His work in this world, the free will of man, and the “problem” of evil, is much ado about nothing and more akin to us being the philosophizing friends of Job. At the end of the day I think we can &#8211; and must &#8211; rest in the cross of Christ rather than trying to proclaim to the world that we have a perfect understanding of the work of God.&#8221; </p>
<p>Please note the &#8220;I just have to wonder&#8221; and the &#8220;perfect understanding of the work of God.&#8221;  And consider Psalm 103, Isaiah 55, Job 42, Psalm 131.  </p>
<p>Please know that I said &#8220;how God works in this world&#8221; rather than the &#8220;sovereignty of God&#8221; because people have different definitions for the sovereignty of God &#8211; a loaded phrase and one that I didn&#8217;t think would be helpful to understanding unless I unpacked it.  I would agree with you that we know that God works in the world, that God created the world, that God is ever present and holding all things together, and so much more.  However, exactly how his mind works and how it impacts our wills isn&#8217;t spelled out in scripture &#8211; not in a way that our finite minds can understand in my opinion.  In fact, that is why we&#8217;ve been arguing that point, biblically, for a couple thousand years.  Don&#8217;t you think?</p>
<p>As to what kind of faith you and I would have&#8230; one would say that as faith comes from God we would have the same faith, especially if one were a Calvinist.  But that is not what you mean by your sentence there.  </p>
<p>You implicitly accuse me of being laissez faire toward doctrine.  I am not nor did I intend to be read in that way.  I would simply ask what you mean by doctrine.  </p>
<p>So, what do you mean by doctrine?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim B.</title>
		<link>http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/2008/04/calvinism-arminianism-open-theism-and-the-3-friends-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-1860</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/?p=770#comment-1860</guid>
		<description>“Since when can we fight and divide self-righteously over something like how God works in this world and interacts with us when He tells us absolutely to unite in the cross of Christ???”

You say this as if God’s Word tells us nothing about how He works in the world and interacts with us.  These are huge factors in understanding Christ’s Gospel.

It is easy to take this tack whilst standing on 2000 years of Church history – 2000 years of martyrs’ blood.  I wonder what kind of faith you and I would have if Athanasius or Augustine or Luther, or Paul for that matter, would have taken a laissez faire attitude toward Christian doctrine.

Unity and sound doctrine do not stand at odds with one another.  Unity on the foundation of sound doctrine should be our aim.

God Bless

&lt;em&gt;Jim B.&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://blatzkrieg.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/a-self-inflicted-crisis/&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A Self-Inflicted Crisis?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Since when can we fight and divide self-righteously over something like how God works in this world and interacts with us when He tells us absolutely to unite in the cross of Christ???”</p>
<p>You say this as if God’s Word tells us nothing about how He works in the world and interacts with us.  These are huge factors in understanding Christ’s Gospel.</p>
<p>It is easy to take this tack whilst standing on 2000 years of Church history – 2000 years of martyrs’ blood.  I wonder what kind of faith you and I would have if Athanasius or Augustine or Luther, or Paul for that matter, would have taken a laissez faire attitude toward Christian doctrine.</p>
<p>Unity and sound doctrine do not stand at odds with one another.  Unity on the foundation of sound doctrine should be our aim.</p>
<p>God Bless</p>
<p><em>Jim B.&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://blatzkrieg.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/a-self-inflicted-crisis/' rel="nofollow">A Self-Inflicted Crisis?</a></em></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bryan Riley</title>
		<link>http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/2008/04/calvinism-arminianism-open-theism-and-the-3-friends-of-job/comment-page-1/#comment-1853</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charisshalom.fjministries.com/?p=770#comment-1853</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Camel guy.... my heart grieves deeply when I enter into discussions with people who go to the mat over these issues.  I feel hopeless for our unity and for the Body at times as the heat of arguments go up and as more denominations and local churches divide and fight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Camel guy&#8230;. my heart grieves deeply when I enter into discussions with people who go to the mat over these issues.  I feel hopeless for our unity and for the Body at times as the heat of arguments go up and as more denominations and local churches divide and fight.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

