19th Oct, 2007

Reflecting What You See & Know

Moses saw God. Moses reflected God’s glory. He didn’t just know facts about God. He wasn’t just knowledgeable that God was omnipotent or the Creator. Moses saw God face to face and talked with Him. Moses saw the God Who Is. And, as a result, He glowed with the glory of God.

Paul talks about this in 2 Corinthians:

Whenever, though, they turn to face God as Moses did, God removes the veil and there they are—face-to-face! They suddenly recognize that God is a living, personal presence, not a piece of chiseled stone. And when God is personally present, a living Spirit, that old, constricting legislation is recognized as obsolete. We’re free of it! All of us! Nothing between us and God, our faces shining with the brightness of his face. And so we are transfigured much like the Messiah, our lives gradually becoming brighter and more beautiful as God enters our lives and we become like him.

2 Corinthians 3:16-18 (The Message).

God is a “living, personal presence,” like you and me. The result of seeing Who God Is is that “our lives gradually becom[e] brighter and more beautiful” as we reflect the reality of Him. When we really know God, we can’t help but live differently.

I’ve spent a little time recently at a blog called Debunking Christianity. It’s an excellent blog written by several intelligent individuals who claim to have known God but no longer believe in Him. I find that interesting. They all claim to have been Christians, “deconverted” (their term), and now are either agnostic or atheists. What’s interesting is that it is a truism to say that you can’t know someone as a person, intimately, and then not believe in that person’s existence. It would be impossible to be intimate with something that doesn’t exist.

However, if all you know is facts about a person (or a thing/entity), then you can ultimately come to a point where you no longer believe that entity exists. And, ironically, many of their arguments for the lack of God center around beliefs of facts about God, such as His omniscience, His omnipotence, and His omnipresence. It is hard to reason how an entity so powerful can exist given the perceived realities we face day in and day out. When all you know is an intellectual caricature of a Being beyond our intellect, then it seems inevitable that you would doubt that Being’s existence.

I’d recommend you spend some time reading a few of the posts over at Debunking Christianity. They even share testimonies from time to time. Some of it is so intellectual it makes for boring reading, but some of it is just good thought provoking material, written by real people whom God loves. If you are tempted to comment over there, please pray for wisdom before you do. Sometimes that spirit of reason can really be easy to worship…

Responses

Thank you so much for the recommendation, for visiting and for commenting at DC.

You do realize that when God showed Moses his glory he purportedly said (from memory), “there is a place near here where there is a rock.” Really? I thought God was omnipresent? And yet we’re also told he “walked in the cool of day” in the Garden of Eden, and that he “rested on the 7th day.”

These statements (and many others) are very interesting if we place them back into the culture from which they were made, with polytheistic embodied gods and all. ["Let us make man in our image."] Today’s Christians go with God as a spirit (from John 4:24), but such a conclusion would not have been evident to the people of Moses’ day at all.

The attempts of Christians to gerrymander around these early texts does not do them justice.

Just one of many thoughts I have to share.

Cheers.

John, I’ve been following this here and at your place, and I don’t get your point in that comment. Could you clarify?

Bryan, thanks, as always.

Marcia, sometimes I just write what’s on my mind, kinda like ramblin’, like most preachers do.

If it doesn’t make sense then it’s not your fault. ;-)

It’s just me.

Cheers.

John, first, you are not recognizing the fact that God is revealing Himself to a man, and speaking in His terms – a rock over there. The man isn’t ominpresent, so it’s not as though God would speak differently.

Second, you are starting with the assumption that man creates god, rather than that God really exists. As a result, it becomes important to talk about how the culture would impact what was written. If, however, God simply revealed Himself, then it is not strange at all, and in fact is good evidence of the truth of God if He revealed Himself in a way that didn’t fit the culture. Monotheism, at that time, was unusual. that alone set Israel and God, the One True God, apart.

Thanks so much for your clarification Byran.

But I don’t buy it.

Surprise.

John

Tis, Ok, John. I don’t expect you (nor want you) to buy me or my explanations…

Byran,

21 Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”

The Holy Bible : New International Version. 1996, c1984 (Ex 33:21). Grand Rapids: Zondervan.

That’s “near me.”

Cheers.

Yep. God, an infinite, reveals Himself in a way that a finite man can see Him. What an amazing thing to do!!!! He doesn’t say “near where I always am” or “near the place where you put a statue of me” as though He were limited. He just says near me. Where I Am. Where you can be near me. Where I will reveal myself to you.

Was Moses just really, really creative or did he figure out that the name Yahweh was limitless? That was a pretty good deal on his part.

How about telling his entire culture to take their dumps outside the camp and cover them? Pretty good sanitation idea well before anyone understood the cncept of germs.

Nice healthy diet too. Just for fun.

The context of what God said about the nearness of the rock is this…”I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”

You might claim these are anthropomorphisms, but in doing so you read this text with hindsight. It would be quite obvious in an age of embodied polytheistic gods that Yaweh had a body.

In fact, the Israelites did not envision a monotheistic God until 2nd Isaiah, since we find God being called the “God of the gods,” in several places in the Bible, especially Psalms. He was the supreme God in their minds, not the only God, and he was conceived of much like the polytheistic gods of that day and age. Archeology also confirms he had a wife!

Bryan, thanks.

Marcia, Keep the faith. It is faith. Something hoped for. Unseen. It’s hard I know, particularly when great challenges hit you. But God is faithful.

very interesting. i’m adding in RSS Reader

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