CHARIS SHALOM

This morning I read the end of Mark and it says “These signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” I don’t understand this passage and have not experienced any of those things. What does that mean? I do think that these things happen and I do believe that the Holy Spirit does give the gift of tongues…I wish that I could say I had experienced it myself but as of yet, I have not. I think we fear most what we don’t understand.

I’m with Meredith.

I have friends who pray in tongues (under their breath – not out loud) and because of them I do believe it is alive and well nowadays.

Yes, I believe the Holy Spirit is gifting Christians today. A friend testified recently that after he prayed for a man on his death-bed, the LORD raised him up! The family would have “pulled the plug” and let him die had it not been for the encouragement of this friend to give God time to heal their loved one. The doctors had no hope, but God had other plans!

I believe in the gift of tongues and that the Holy Spirit still gives gifts. I see there is a lot of abuse of the gifts and I think many times the abuse of the gifts causes more pain in new & immature believers.

Juan

I think it is clear in the Scripture and through the experience of Christians today that the Holy Spirit is still gifting people. Meredith, two things to remember: (1) God gives good gifts to those who ask because He is the perfect loving Father; and (2) God desires (and deserves) that we focus on Him, the Giver, more than we focus on the gifts. Some can get so caught up in “experience” that they miss THE Experience, but at the same time many get so focused on law and fear fakery so much that they also miss THE Experience. God is real; we just need to start believing it and acting in accordance with the Truth of His love and power.

Good comment, Juan. When we fear abuse, we aren’t being loving. And we also are in danger of being judgmental. We should simply trust God and not worry so much about what might be human/fleshy. I wish that all of those who see someone shaking or doing something “strange” in worship would go to that person later and ask them about it. See what their testimony is about it. See if they are giving God the glory. If Jesus is the Lord of their life.

Oh, and Meredith, spot on on fearing what isn’t understood, and the last time I checked, faith often starts when something doesn’t make sense…

If God has stopped giving that gift, then it’s been in the 13 years since 1994. That’s when He gave it to me.

As to the passage in Mark, that’s got to be viewed in light of Paul’s statements that not all speak in tongues. He also says the Holy Ghost distributes gifts as He wills. He gets to choose; we don’t (except for wisdom).

Problem with tongues is that you don’t know if it’s from God, or just from the mind of the one speaking, or from possibly from a demon/or Satan who comes as an angel of Light. Should we be listening to a demon and thinking it’s from God? If He is still giving the gift, then why have I never heard it in any of the many churches of been in all my life? Doesn’t scripture say tongues will cease? And if it is from God, then why are we not adding these words to the Bible since they are Gods’ Word. God warns in the last couple of paragraphs of the Bible that nothing is to be added to it. I think tongues have ceased. I heard about two seminary students who went into a tongue speaking church and started reciting Hebrew scripture that they had memorized in the Hebrew language. They got a good laugh when someone tried to interpret it as something else. I think when people are not content with the written Word and want something more dramatic that Satan will certainly accomodate their desire for the supernatural. If he can get their attention, then he can tell them what he wants them to hear and have them obeying him.

Steve, I could rewrite the first part of your comment like this: “The problem with preaching is that you don’t know if it’s from God, or just from the mind of the one speaking, or from possibly a demon….” You see, except for the portions of any sermon where a person is quoting scripture, how can we know that God is speaking through the one preaching? Even though many preachers in the U.S. will claim that tongues aren’t for today, I’ve never met a preacher who will say that they aren’t praying that God will speak through them to the congregation.

As for the bible saying tongues cease. 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 says: “Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.”

That is the stated basis for the cessation of tongues today. I’d ask you to pray for understanding as to how that passage, either in the context of the rest of Scripture or standing alone states that tongues have ceased.

Most tongues are not God speaking; rather it is man speaking, through his spirit to God. After that passage in chapter 13 of 1 Corinthians, the Word says: “For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.” So, as to any concern about adding to scripture, fear not.

Also, again, going back to preaching, Christians take by faith that the pastor’s words are a result of the pastor seeking God’s word for them, to proclaim what God would have the pastor say to the pastor’s congregation. But, that doesn’t mean that entire sermons need to be added to the scripture, just because God has spoken through them.

Clearly as long as humanity is involved, until Jesus returns, there will be fakery, but fakery should not be a basis for rejecting God or His gifts. Instead, it is a basis for seeking more of Him. Isn’t it interesting that you have these questions while also asking about walking in the Spirit?

Remember that God is the same yesterday, today and forever. My comment is already too long, so I will stop here.

What’s the point of gibbering away if others can’t understand what you’re banging on about?

Francoise, that is why we are cautioned about doing so in church gatherings. There isn’t a purpose in doing so. It is for our own edification, just as it is to think through things. The bible simply describes most tongues as our spirit communicating with God in spirit.

I apologize it’s taken me so long to respond. My internet is down as we are in the process of moving.
Yes, I don’t think we should lose focus on the greatest gift of God, His reconciliation with us. But I am anxious to see how that is worked out in my life and I want to experience Him in every way He has planned for me to. I am eager to learn all that I can and walk as close to Him as I can. I suppose that I keep these thoughts and desires on hand so that 1. I am open to experiencing them 2. I don’t try to put God in a box or worse yet, to create a God that I am comfortable with and 3.that I do not catch myself in a situation being dogmatic about worship experiences that I haven’t much knowledge on. Your comment on missing it by going to either extreme was right on.
Aside from all that, I hope that your family is doing well. I think of you all often and all of the exciting things that God is doing with you. Your testimony is still brought up at church and I am glad for your blog where we can keep up with all that you are doing and learning.
May God bless you!