CHARIS SHALOM

Bryan,

Kudos to your transparency. Oh that we all would be that way. IMHO, I believe that every male struggles at some level with lust. I know I find myself struggling with this same issue. Thanks for this good word of encouragement.

Les

Bryan,

I really appreciate your honesty. I, too, have bought into the self-hatred lie for sin in my life. It has just made me feel hopeless. You’ve given me some insight. Thank you.

Mary

Bryan, my thing is food. My husband tells me to “eat to live” not “live to eat”, but, yikes, I like certain foods!!! They give me joy and comfort and uh,oh, isn’t that what God’s suppose to do?

Are we substituting lust for whatever for our deep need of God?

I am with Mary, you have given me much to think about. The power of food over me has become OVERWHELMING! It seems the more I pray, the more I lust! And I, like you, HATE myself!!!

LORD, let our false-hunger for substitutes become hunger for You! Open our eyes to see the TRUTH.

Thank you Bryan, for being so open and vulnerable.

Marie

Whoa, I do appreciate you posting this Byran. Very heady topic, and very personal. I certainly struggled with this issue, although in a somewhat different way (I bought into a lie that I could artistically/aesthetically appreciate the nude form without lust being involved — ding dong, I was wrong). The only thing that brought me out of that wasn’t trying harder to stop living in sin…it was receiving more of God’s love and allowing Him to be the absolute center of my entire life.

Just getting rid of sin leaves a vacuum which is usually replaced by sin once again. I was lusting for a reason…I was lonely, uncertain of my future, and embarrassed around girls and generally people I didn’t know. What I really wanted was intimacy — not sexual per se, but just to really, really be able to care for people and have people care for me.

Through going through a revolutionary transformation in my walk with God, coupled with finding an awesome church and making friends I’d take a bullet for, that void has largely been filled. Sure, as a single guy, I’d love to find the right woman and get married, but at the moment, I am content.

Thanks again for the post!

Thank you all for your thoughtful and excellent responses. Les, I definitely wanted to add that all or almost all males struggle with the sin, but I really think I use that sometimes to hold on to the sin and then just beat myself up for being a really lousy male.

I may post on this next thought if it develops further, but I had this come to mind… God asks us to confess our sin. To confess a sin is to admit that something is sin, not God’s will for my life. I think what I often confess is not the sin itself; instead, I confess how bad of a person I am, either with my words or by my attitudes and actions. That’s not confession at all. That’s just self pity and shame, and not things that God says of me or of anyone. I think part of what God is showing me is what Jared says so well above:

The only thing that brought me out of [sin] wasn’t trying harder to stop living in sin…it was receiving more of God’s love and allowing Him to be the absolute center of my entire life.

Said another way, I must live in the reality of how incredible and loving God is and that He chooses to love me. That motivates me to live in a way that is pleasing to Him.

Great entry. As others noted, your transparency is appreciated — among other things, this helps other men know that they are not alone in what they struggle with.

I think that “I’m alone with this depravity, and nobody is as evil and dirty as I am” is a big part of the lie that causes this area of sin to fester in so many people. Guilt and shame cause isolation, and once you are trying to resist temptation alone, you’ve already lost a big part of the battle. This is also why confession to one another is so vital.

I am a sincere believer in the words of 1 Corinthians 10:13, and this has often given me strength in times of weakness and temptation:

“No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.”

But notice that standing on this promise will involve some self-control. Knowing that you are feeling weak, but allowing the lustful thoughts to lead you into deeper thoughts, or hanging out where you know you’ll be tempted (this could be anywhere — TV, movie, internet, etc) will certainly not help with the level of temptation you’ll endure.

Thanks for this very useful and thoughtful discussion!

The fact that it’s a battle is as it should be. It puts real emphasis on the daily self-crucifixion that Paul mentioned.

That you are battling is a good sign. I recall an old 2-liner from my high school years …

“Are you troubled by dirty thoughts?”

“No .. no trouble.”

Please do continue to be serious in the struggle. Your life now will establish habits that will persist after hormones have subsided, and left you with only habits but without thrills.

I don’t think we’re promised victory over this battle .. we’re promised victory IN it. So just keep on keeping on.

I sure do wish there were more Bob Clevelands and Paul Burlesons out there for us younger men (how much longer can I call myself young?).

CH, thanks for the reminder from Corinthians. God has given us the victory through the cross; we just need to believe it.

Bryan, amen to your last comment
“trying harder.” Often I believe the believers reaction to God showing us where our weaknesses is to grit our teeth, clinch our fist and chant-I think I can, I think I can.
In fact, I can’t-but praise God, HE can.
In my own strength I will remain bound forever.
How wonderful is our God to set us free.

God used this post in my life yesterday when I was struggling internally and God revealed to me that what the law was powerless to do, Jesus did on the cross. He set us free. Period. End of story, we are free. We are free indeed. When we know and beleive that, we act differently. Yes, we will struggle and war in the spirit but it doesn’t change who we are and what he did. He set us free. Oh prase His name. Thanks.

Amen!!! Thanks be and glory to God!

Bryan,

Can I just say “thank you”? This is all information I already know, but man, did I need this reminder. I, like Marie, struggle with food & body image (and have battled disordered eating for many years). And so often the anger and hatred that I feel toward myself that comes after falling into temptation I know isn’t from the Lord. Thank you for reminding me that my hatred must be towards the sin and not myself. Exposing those lies is the first step towards victory. Praise God that He who began the work is faithful to complete it in Christ Jesus!

Blessings,
Sarah

Thanks Bryan. I came across your post when I searched “sin living in me” (from Romans 7) on Google. I’ve been constantly battling the sin of lust living in me since the Internet first came along with all of it’s porn, over 10 years ago. It’s been a roller coaster ride of falling, repenting, walking in the Spirit, enemy attacks, straying from the Spirit, and falling again. If only I could keep myself walking in the Spirit and never straying from Him. God help us. The enemy sure knows how to tempt us and discourage us. Unfortunately we have our two natures always warring until we die. We have born again spirits that never want to sin and always want to please and love God, and we also have unredeemed evil wicked fallen natures that lust after sin, are totally selfish, and don’t care at all what God says, thinks, or feels. I guess this explains why our bodies still must die. O wretched men that we are, who will save us from these bodies of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! (Romans 7) The key is to walk in the Spirit so we won’t fulfill the lust of the flesh. How would you define walking in the Spirit? How can we keep from not walking in the Spirit? God help us brother!

Steve, first, I want to make sure you have noticed something, not because my post is so great, but because God used it to speak to you personally, you got here and had these thoughts because of the internet. Therefore, something Satan has designed for evil in your life, God has a good purpose for it. I struggled with internet porn, too. It would seem blogging could be hazardous as a result. But, as God has helped me grow in my love for Him, I no longer want to hurt Him by going to such sites that are destructive to my dependence on Him. And, He has given me a ministry through the very tool that Satan was using to eat me up! Isn’t that amazing?

Second, the thing you are doing when you fall into sexual sin is comforting yourself. You are saying to God you aren’t comfort enough for me. I must take matters into my own hands. You are then becoming a god unto yourself. Remember that Jesus said it is good that I leave because I am leaving another for you, the Comforter, the Holy Spirit. The great need in your life right now is comfort, based on what you have written. Pray and beg God that He will show you how much He wants to comfort you and be your comforter rather than you worshiping the idol of sexual sin and self.

Finally, walking in the Spirit starts with faith. Colossians 2:6. Just as you have received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to walk in Him. I would suggest spending some time studying and meditating on John 10, 14-17, and Romans 6-8. And, then live as though you believe it. As it says in Facing the Giants, there are two farmers in a drought, both pray for rain, one prepares his fields for rain, the other doesn’t. Which one believes? Prepare your heart for rain!

Thank you so much for encouraging me with your words, Steve!

Thanks Bryan,

I will plan to spend some time studying and meditating on the chapters from John and Romans that you mentioned. I will also try to remember not to hate myself for continually falling into the same cesspool of sin.

I think the problem is our sexual appetites that crave to be satisfied just like our appetites for food and drink. This strong appetite with it’s powerful desire makes us easy prey for being drawn away and enticed. Especially when a “feast” for that appetite is just a mouse click away, and when that fleshly appetite doesn’t care to be satisfied with the spiritual comfort that God gives.

James 1
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

In Romans 7 Paul states that it is no longer him comitting sin, but “sin” living in him. Is Paul not to blame for the “sin” living in him which is causing him to sin? My sinning certainly does feel “out of control”.:

Romans 7
I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

But part of us is perfect and CANNOT sin:
1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Apparently in our born again natures we have been joined to God’s Perfect and Sinless Spirit through His Seed (His Word/Spirit) and we are sinless, while at the same time we drag around these unredeemed bodies of corruption and death that are full of sin and will continue to bear the fruit of sin and corruption until they are finally dead and we are forever separated from them.

I have big problems over a lot of things which Christians label as sin. We are all conceived in lust- no exceptions. Lust is responsible for the existence of the human race. Oh, sure, some of us are conceived in love as well, but it’s NOT essential for propagation of the species, and lust IS.

Be thankful you have a healthy sex drive, is my advice. It’s part of being human- a BIG part, too. If you believe that God created us, then surely you can find your sexuality something to be thankful for?

You’re a heterosexual male- you’ve been wired to respond enthusiastically to feminine curves- enjoy it and celebrate it, instead of using it as something to get hung up about.

My grandfather, another atheist, was proud of his vigorous sexuality and celebrated his 80th birthday with his mistress in a Copenhagen strip show. That put even more life into the old boy!

You’re dead for an awful long time- you may as well enjoy life while you can. And, let’s be honest, who are you hurting by looking at pretty women? One of the joys of being in Rome is the drooling over the local men, who just have to be Europe’s most gorgeous. I make no secret of the fact that I’m a sexual being, hence have no problems when hubby salivates over Italian women. Humans are made to look!

I don’t believe I’ll ever be dead, Francoise. Not spiritually. That is why I don’t have to live life for myself. I live life for the source of life - God!!!

And, yes, we can appreciate the beauty God has provided, but we shouldn’t do so in a selfish way. Instead, let it be to God’s glory that we rejoice in our sexuality, a gift from God. I am thankful for my sexuality, very much so!

Francoise, thank you for adding that sexuality is something to be thankful for. I am sorry if the post made it appear as though I regretted the way God made me. I don’t at all!!!

But I desire that my sexuality function in the way God designed it to function, because in that is love, not lust. Joy, not sadness. Relationship, not separation. Intimacy, not abuse.

It sounds like you’re making a mountain out of a molehill- I just don’t understand how something which you believe is God-given has to be denied and suppressed in order to please that God.

It seems quite strange that you’re given a gift, but the giver gets cranky if you use it. You say that God designed the sex urge to be love, but let’s call it by its real name, because we all know very well that it’s lust. If it were designed only to express love towards a spouse, why is it so constantly active? Why does it first manifest in childhood, and continue for the rest of your life? Because you, as a male, are programmed to spread your genes as widely as possible. Some men are naturally monogamous in their sexual psychology, but most are not.

There is one main purpose in sex- and that’s procreation. End of story. Every species must strive to reproduce.

The secondary purpose of sex is social bonding -ie, you are far more likely to hang aorund people if you’re having fun and games with them, and humans ARE a fun-loving, playful species, and social bonding facilitates survival.

If you celebrate your sexuality, you’ll have to come to terms with the biological fact that you’re wired to enjoy looking at women, and I, for one, see nothing wrong in your looking at porn. (That’s the advantage of having no god- you never have to worry about whether you’re pleasing it or getting it steamed up. ) But if you want REAL porn, read the Old Testament! All the rapes and depravities to satisfy the most jaded appetite!

You have a god, Francoise; it is you and whatever else you have chosen to be enslaved to. You have spoken of right and wrong here and on other blogs. You have things you define as wrong.

With respect to right and wrong, I simply desire to let God define that and not myself. I believe He who created me knows better what is good for me than I do. I trust Him in that. Porn is not good for me nor does it enhance my gift of sexuality. Rather it creates a false intimacy and ultimately acts like a vaccination against real intimacy. That is not good or healthy and it helps me understand why God desires me to seek a better way.

Moreover, francoise, without writing a whole new post on porn, there are many pornographers and people in porn who are there by force and who are being abused. Why would any person, believer or not, want to support an industry than enslaves, abuses, rapes, steals?

Finally, the main point of the post is not the sin of lust; it is the fact that my response to sin was to believe a lie about myself and not trust in God. It really isn’t just about the sin of lust; it is about sin in general. It is about the lies of the enemy and the truth of the love of God. It is about not hating me, but hating the things that destroy me. Whether you believe it or not, Francoise, pornography destroys; it does not give life. I want to choose those things that bring life, not death.

Francoise, I just want to ask you this: did you ever stop and wonder what kind of lives the people you and your grandfather are looking at at strip shows and porn sites are leading? It may be fun and games to you, but the sex industry is built from the ground up on shame, greed, and broken lives. Those porn stars look like they’re having the time of their lives, but inside they’re empty like tombs. Drugs, disease, depression, and suicide run rampant. Read up on it.

Our sexually explicit modern culture is chock full of broken hearts, broken relationships, and wasted lives. You may think that Christians are foolish to ask God for discipline and self-control for their bodies in order to have a healthy, monogamous relationship within the covenant of marriage — but all I can say is the alternative is no picnic.

Respectfully yours, Jared

Porn is in the Bible, too. I simply don’t care what people enjoy sexually, provided that it’s consensual.

There’s no need to enslave porn workers- the pay is good and there’s no shortgage of volunteers.

Francoise, What if you’re wrong? What if the Bible is true and everyone is accountable to their Creator? What if the only just punishment for sinning against the infinitely Holy Creator really is eternal torture in Hell? What if the only way to escape that punishment is trusting that His Son, Jesus, took the punishment for you on the cross? Imagine if you’re wrong, and you have to suffer eternally for it? Imagine that you were designed and created by an infinitely intelligent and glorious Creator who is also loving, kind, and merciful. Just in case you’re wrong, why not ask Him to help you to know if He is real or not, to allow you to believe in Him if He really is there, and to give you the faith to trust in His Son as the only way to escape His eternal wrath? If He is not there then what have you lost by seeking Him, If He is there and if He reveals Himself to you, then your gain is infinite in Him. In His infinite love, He gives Himself completely. May He richly bless you with Himself. Steve

Steve, God cannot be loving if he tortures people for eternity.

Bryan, my god is not me. I told you that I have no god. You are a self-confessed adulterer, hence in no position to judge me or anyone else. Personally, I don’t see you as an adulterer, but your god certainly does.

But I forgot -it’s OK, because Jesus took your punishment for you.

Human beings invariably destroy whatever they once worshipped, so I will not be detroying myself.

Francoise,

God demonstrated His love to me on the cross, when He suffered in my place. Who else would show me such love? He is free to love whomever He chooses to love and He doesn’t love everyone. If He loved everyone, then He would pray for eveyone, and He didn’t. But He does promise that everyone who seeks Him will find Him. But no one will seek Him unless He is already drawing them to Himself in His great love for them. The eternal torture of Hell is the experience of God’s perfect justice and wrath toward sin & sinners. They receive exactly what they deserve to receive.

Romans 7
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As He says also in Hosea:

“ I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
26 “ And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,

‘ You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”

27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:

“ Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the LORD will make a short work upon the earth.”[k]

29 And as Isaiah said before:

“ Unless the LORD of Sabaoth[l]had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”

“I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. John 17:9

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44

For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Matthew 7:8

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Rev 21:8

“Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.” Romans 5:9-10

For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.” Romans 10:13

I ABSOLUTELY disagree that God doesn’t love everyone. He does. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son so that whosoever believes will not perish but have eternal life.

And God has always exhibited His love. Francoise doesn’t see that; she reads scriptures the speak of killing and sees hate. I see love. God’s love, working through all of history to save everyone. He loves all so much that He gives a choice to love Him or not. Those who choose to love Him, He freely gives life to, a relationship forever with Him Who Is. Those who don’t, He freely allows them to choose death, separation forever from the source of all life.

God loves and comes to give abundant life. It is the enemy, Satan, who comes to kill, steal and destroy. John 10:10. Satan wants people to believe God doesn’t love. That is blindness to the truth of God’s love. The bible is God’s love story to us. Hear it. He is singing over us with rejoicing. Zephaniah 3:17.

I agree Brian. The hyper-Calvanist viewpoint expressed by Steve is not the Christianity I believe in. The God I know and love is burning with a holy fire of passionate love for all people, everyone. There is nobody on earth whom God willingly separates from His extravagant love. The question, will we receive this love and become reconciled with the Father through the death and resurrection of His precious son, or will we choose to reject it and suffer the abuse and anguish of our own fallen humanity and crushed souls?

God doesn’t punish people for eternity like some kind of sick dictator. Hell is simply a place where God isn’t. Some people are practically living there today on earth — lives of misery, poverty, violence, and decay. We as the Church must rise up to bring the Kingdom of Heaven to those dark and evil places. We should be ready to storm the very gates of hell itself — Jesus called us to do no less!

At the same time, just because Steve has what I believe to be a misunderstanding of God’s love and of God’s character, I don’t believe that means that he isn’t a regenerated follower of the Way. It just is a misunderstanding of Who God Is, and we all struggle to know Who God Is and continue to have more and more of Him revealed to us as we seek and hunger for Him. May God reveal Himself more and more to all of us!

Bryan & Jared,

If God loves everyone, then why did Jesus not pray for everyone?:

“I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. John 17:9

What about God hating Esau?

Romans 9:
Not only that, but Rebekah’s children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

God freely loves whomever He chooses to love and is a debtor to no one. Apart from Christ, we are all sinners deserving his judgment and wrath, not His love. Thankfully God freely chooses to love “a remnant” through Christ, and not because of them or their decisions.

“You did not choose Me, but I chose you…” John 15:16

We did not choose to be born physically, nor did we choose to be born again spiritually. When we are born again of God’s Spirit it is not the result of our “human decision” -
John 1
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

“It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.” Romans 9:16

Romans 11 -

Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. Just as it is written:

“ God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”

Luke 8
Then His disciples asked Him, saying, “What does this parable mean?”
And He said, “To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that

‘ Seeing they may not see,
And hearing they may not understand.’

Steve, truth is multi-dimensional. Scripture is truth, therefore it is multi-dimensional. I choose to view the supreme truth that God is love and that love is the greatest thing in existence and that love covers a multitude of sins and that God loved the world so much that Jesus died for the world. Only those who believe are saved, but the gift of salvation is for the whole world, not just a select few. That is as fundamental to my faith as any doctrine or creed.

Everything else in the Bible I see as a microcosm of an overarching redemptive plan that God set in motion at the beginning of time, all in the name of Love. I don’t minimize the wrath of His jealousy and anger at the wickedness of man and the satanic deception we choose to allow in our lives, but I also don’t minimize the fact that God loves me no better or worse than the prostitute on the street or the drug addict in the gutter or the alcoholic at the bar. Sometimes God can work more in those people’s lives than in the holier-than-thou churchgoer. I’ve see it, first hand.

Selah.

Steve, would God turn any away who turned to Him?

Yes, those scriptures say that just as John 3:16 tells us that God loved the world and that “whosoever will.” Just as Romans 10 tells us “whoever believes.” Just as it says that God wills that all come to salvation. And Peter preached, quoting Joel, that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Should this cause us a crisis of faith or do we simply know that God is infinite and we are finite? Should we appreciate that God calls and gives grace, but every gift by definition must be received. That God knows all but that He also allows man to have a will. I don’t understand it all, but I also know that it is inconsistent with God’s character, a character of love, to say that He does not love everyone.

Finally, from Francoise’s perspective, looking on, does this appear to be an argument and something that proves to her that there is no God? She probably does. I pray that our unity in Jesus (not on every jot and tittle of understanding given the fact that we are still in this fleshy body and mind) would help her see that Jesus really is who He claimed to be. Otherwise He was the greatest fraud of all time. He might as well have been the guy who gave the group the cyanide laden kool-aid if He isn’t.

So, we may disagree because a human focus on a single passage or two rather than approaching Truth with the infinite mind of the Father, but that doesn’t separate us from the love of God. The only thing that separates us (humanity) from God’s love is unbelief. But He still loves us. So much that He gives us a choice to love Him or not.

Jared & Bryan,

Yes, God is Love, and in love He chose to create us and He chose to save us through His love on the cross. He tells us in His Word that He chose us, we did not chose Him.

Search His Word at Biblegateway.com for the words chose and elect.

Many are called but few are chosen. No one can come to Him unless He enables them. The spiritually dead cannot respond to God. All the offspring of Adam and Eve are spiritually dead except those whom God choses to spiritually regenerate by giving them His Spirit. It is He who works in us to will and to do His good pleasure. Whosoever will, yes, but none will, on His terms, unless He is working in them.

As He tells us:
“There is none who understands;There is none who seeks after God. ” Romans 3:11

Many seek Him on their own terms, but not many seek Him by His Spirit because few are chosen and regenerated.

Who are the ones whom the Father has given to Jesus?

“This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.” John 6:39

“My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.”
John 10:29

We give ourselves to God, because He has already given Himself to us and is working in us by His infinitely loving Spirit.

Amazing Grace that saved a wretch like me!

Bryan,

Sorry for the duplicate posts. Don’t know how the first one got there. Delete it if you can. Thanks.

Steve, I am very familiar with just such a study and, in my opinion, which is just that, an opinion, you are getting there. I agree with almost all you have written in this latest comment. God is absolutely sovereign. But I do not believe that any of that changes the FACT that God loves everyone. Absolutely. And that the Word demonstrates His sovereignty and His love consistently.

no problem on the duplicate posts. I will delete one. simply saying something twice doesn’t make it right.

Bryan,

Have you thought about the question I asked earlier? If Jesus loves everyone, then why didn’t He pray for them?

“I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. John 17:9

God says He hated Esau. Would you tell Esau “God love you”?

Jesus condemned the Pharisees and called them children of the Devil. Would you tell them that “Jesus loves you”?

Most people go to Hell. If God loved them, then why didn’t He save them from Hell?

He is sovereign and lovingly saves whomever He pleases. God works in us to will and to do His GOOD pleasure.

Humanity, in it’s fallen pride, wants to be like God, masters of their fate, and not under God’s authority and will.

Steve, I did see your questions and desired to answer them, but I just hadn’t had time to sit down and do so.

I find it difficult and problematic to take single verses/passages of scripture and build my theology therefrom. I think we must allow the whole to speak. I don’t believe that we can interpret any scripture in a way that is inconsistent with God’s character as manifested through scripture.

As for what it says of Esau, I don’t see that as any different than what Jesus says about being his disciple. He says unless we hate our family we cannot be his disciple. Is he really telling us to hate our family? Or is he saying that our love for him must be so great that in comparison it is as though we hate our family. It isn’t that we hate our family (or anyone); it is that we will not let our love for anyone prevent us from following him (just like we could have stayed in Arkansas because that is what our family wanted; instead, God told us to go into missions and we went). If anything keeps us from obeying Him, our love for that thing or person is greater than our love for Him and we are idolaters.

You also are taking a single prayer of Jesus’ from John 17 and making it sound as though Jesus never prayed for everyone. At the same time we know that Jesus prayed for those who crucified him, asking God to forgive them because they knew not what they were doing.

Who crucified Jesus? All of us. In that way one could say He prayed for us all. Clearly, HE was loving those present in spite of what they were doing. Do you believe Jesus ever acted in hate or without love? If He did He was violating what He called the greatest commandment and wouldn’t be the prefect sacrifice and our faith in Him would be meaningless.

Jesus was God manifest in human form. He commanded us to love our enemies. I am quite certain He did all that He commanded us to do. Who else would be His enemies than those who would reject Him and refuse to love Him?

And, isn’t it interesting that in 1 Timothy 2, where it clearly states that God “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth,” that we are told to pray and intercede for all men (not just some).

Do you believe for one second that if the Pharisees had repented that Jesus wouldn’t have willingly accepted them in love? Yes, of course, Jesus loved them. That is why He told them the truth about their “ways.” You sound like Jonah railing against God about the Ninevites.

Why does God allow so many to go to hell? Because He loves them. He made them in his image so that they could truly love. What does love require? True love? It is an act of the will. A choice. God loves us so much that He allows us to choose to love Him or not. He loves us so much that if we choose not to love Him He will honor that choice and not force us to spend eternity with someone we don’t love. Those who fail to choose God love themselves more and He gives them that love for eternity, apart from Him, the source of all true life and love. That, my brother, is hell.

You also never address verses or the fact that the entire bible is a story of God’s redemptive love for all who would love Him and that He gave us the ability to do so even while we were yet sinners.

Yes, I believe it’s clear God loves everyone, and boy am I glad He does!

Bryan,

I agree, our understanding needs to be in harmony with all verses of scripture. So what is your understanding of John 17:9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.?

The passage about hating Esau is in the context of God’s sovereign election, about Him choosing whomever He pleases. That’s why it mentions God’s sovereign choice even before Jacob & Esau were born or had done anything good or bad. In love He chooses some, and in His justice and wrath He rightly condemns others. If He didn’t choose some, then none would be saved. None would choose Him apart from His Spirit working in them. “There is none who understands;There is none who seeks after God. ” Romans 3:11

Jesus did pray on the cross for His enemies. But to be consistent with His prayer for only “those you have given me” I would conclude that some of those enemies who crucified Him were also elected to salvation and would later receive the gift of faith. While we were still enemies, Christ died for us. We are told to love our enemies. Not to have warm fuzzy feelings for them, but to desire that they be saved. We don’t know who the elect are and so we pray for and witness to all of our enemies since some may be elect. However, on the last day, there will be no more praying & witnessing (loving) when the elect stand in judgment of their enemies: 1 Corinthians 6:2
“Do you not know that the saints will judge the world?”

In 1Tim2 does the Greek say God desires “all men” to be saved or just “all” to be saved, as in “all you have given me”?

So you believe that God allows billions to go to eternal torture, a lake of fire where the smoke of their torment goes up forever, where the worm dies not, because He loves them? You call that love? No thank you. Is God too weak to save those He loves? I am glad that He loved me enough to save me against my fallen will that would have never have chosen Him and that would have been heading for destruction except for God’s sovereign election and regeneration. Did I have a choice to be born physically? Did Lazarus have a choice to come out of the tomb? Thank God He gave me His Spirit and didn’t leave me spiritually dead and unable to respond to him.

I was not railing against the Pharisees, it was Jesus railing against them and calling them hypocrites and children of the Devil right to their faces. The Pharisees hated Jesus and would never repent without God’s intervention and neither would we:
Acts 11:18
When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”

A god who choses whom he choses and casts away whom he casts away, and we have no assurance or guarantee or say in the matter, is not a god I’m willing to serve. When the Christian God starts sounding more like Allah than Jehovah, I run as fast as I can in the opposite direction.

Adam and Eve had a choice to believe in God’s Word or to believe a lie from satan. They chose death over life. Now we have the ability to choose life over death by becoming reconciled to the Father through the miraculous sacrifice of His Son. I don’t deny God’s power or sovereignty to draw us into His presence when we are dead in our sins and unable to see, but I also don’t deny the world God made in which we have the ability to make choices. A world in which free will no longer operates is not reality.

Interestingly enough, I am somewhere in between you guys on this issue, but, at the same time I don’t fully understand what either of you said, particularly you, Steve, but I am not going to draw any lines or boxes around God because I cannot and I will serve Him no matter what because I know He loves me and is absolutely and eternally faithful.

Steve, I have no response otherwise except to ask if you will pray for me and my family as I go to the Philippines. Jared, will you as well? Moreover, any time either of you would like to join me and my family on any mission trip I will do whatever I can to make it possible. While we may not fully understand the infinite and personal God, I believe He loves us all and can work through each of us to see His purpose accomplished in the lives of men and women around the world.

Jared,

God warned Adam & Eve that in the day they eat of the forbidden fruit they will surely die, and they did surely die on that day, spiritually. Satan conquered them and ruled over them and all their offspring since. Being under the “power of darkness” we were spiritually dead and would never choose Christ unless regenerated or made alive by God’s Spirit. We don’t like it because we want to be like God and in control of our destiny. But apart from God stepping in to save us, our destiny was eternal Hell which we all deserve. God would be just to throw the whole planet into Hell. I’m just thankful He freely chose to show love and mercy to me and at tremendous cost to Himself. However, He is under no obligation to love and be merciful to anyone. How thankful we should be knowing what we deserved and what He accomplished to save us.

Freewill? You had no choice to be born or not. No choice in how you would look, what intelligence and gifts you would have, what kind of family you would have, where you would be born, when you will die, etc. etc. God is the One who has the freewill to write the story of our lives any way He chooses,

Acts 17
From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.

Colosians 1
….giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

Act 26
“Then I asked, ‘Who are you, Lord?’

” ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you. I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Bryan,

May God work through you and your family to save many of His elect children as you share His Word of Life with them. And may He give you all much joy, peace, happiness, and protection in the process. I ask this in Jesus Awesome Name. Amen!

I’d like to be a missionary too. I recently learned about an orphanage in Mexico being helped by: http://www.jamesfund.org. Pray for my wife’s salvation and her willingness to go along with me. Although the Lord expects first place in our lives, I don’t think he would want me to abandon my unsaved wife to serve Him in Mexico. Scripture says if we don’t provide for our families then we are worse than unbelievers. And I am called to love my wife as Christ loved the church in giving Himself up for her. So I am praying God will work in this situation to incline my wife’s heart to want to go to Mexico. I need prayer too. Thanks!

Bryan, I do pray for you and your family, and I ask that the Lord show provision, security, and spiritual breakthrough in all that you set out to accomplish in Jesus’ name. May mighty miracles accompany you as you share the good news with the poor in spirit, and may the powerful love of Christ shine in you and through you.

Steve, I also pray for your wife that she may come to know her Maker and Savior and the riches she has in Christ Jesus. I pray too that you both can be directed to wherever you are meant to serve. I thank God for your faithfulness in such a difficult situation and ask that He strengthen you with His love and glory.

Blessings, Jared

I found this site by goggle. Maybe it is a message from God to me. I am desperate for some kind of anwser to deal with lust. I have gotten to the point where I wanted to take my own life because the peversion is so terribly strong. I hate the thoughts that have continualy haunted me. Since a young child I have strugled with it due to how I was used for some others pleasure. I live a life of guilt and self hatred. I want to cry and scream because I know I would not have to strugle with this issue had I not been some toy to those people. My sexuality is out of whack and I have no idea how to over come. I never can have victory and no one understands why I am depressed all the time. I have suffered sexual, and verbal abuse in my childhood. My home was very broken and painful. As a child I contemplated suicide because I blaimed myself for my paretns fighting. I feel dirty almost every day and I am so lonly. I am 23 and never had someone. I know I just just concentrate on God but its so hard to even go before him when I am such a filthy freak. I have gone through a goth stage in my life where all I wear is black. I listened to a lot of rock, metal, heavy metal, death metal, etc. It helps me to scream inside. I have had a history of cutting. I did this to punish myself…. I feel trapped in the darkness and almost as if I have become comfortable in my darkness yet I hate it and want to be free. I hate sex with a passion. Its so filthy and an abomination to me. I just want to be normal… I am so tired of fighting this battle…. I dont know if anynone will read this or even care…I have been in the pit for so long it seems like all have given up hope on me…. why did this all have to happen to me. I am a poet and this is how I feel to express myself….

I have run out of tears to cry so I bleed through my wounds that have been torn due to the filth of mans lies. Death seems to call so sweatly yet I see his knife called hell. I hide behind a wall of darkness only crying to be relieved of this wound. I strive for forgivness but only feel the sting of hell.

Sorry but thats just how I can express myself. Pray for me…. I lost faith in love…. I believe in Gods love but its hard for me to believe I could be loved…..

Keith, thank you writing what you’ve written. Not for me, but for yourself and for God. He hears you. But you’ve got to believe that. It sounds like you have been believing the deceiver for a long time. I understand, though, because I have believed that lie, too, and let it drive me down much the same path and I have been near those choices of death, too. What’s amazing is that no matter how “condemned” we feel, the truth is that God offers complete forgiveness and power to live for Him to those who will accept it.

Our struggle is not against flesh and blood but against the forces of spiritual darkness. Ephesians 6. Satan is the accuser and the condemner. God is the life- and love giver. John 10:10 says that it is the enemy (Satan/Lucifer) who comes to bring death - that is separation from love and bondage to that which isn’t love - and it is Jesus who comes to bring life - relationship with God. So, when you feel like death and when you condemn yourself, you are trusting in the enemy not in God.

Ask God for comfort. Jesus told us that when He left He would send the Holy Spirit, the Comforter. He would give the Comforter. You are hurting because you need love. Comfort fights lust and a craving for fake intimacy. God says I love you. John 3:16, Romans 5:8, Zephaniah 3:17, Jeremiah 31:3. God says I give you my love. A gift is something given with no strings attached; however, for a gift to become a gift legally, the recipient must accept the gift - they must take it. Drink from His well, not the enemy’s.

Instead of love from God, you are taking what Satan offers you. Self-hatred, sin, lust, selfishness. Read Proverbs 9.

Pray and ask God for these things, but do so believing, as it tells us in James 1. If a farmer prays for rain but doesn’t prepare his field for rain, he hasn’t believed. Prepare your life for love.

Now, here’s the hard part. You should find someone who will be the true love of God to you, accepting you right where you are who can help you through this time of darkness. Pray that God will give you wisdom in this. Find someone, whether it is a pastor, a counselor who follows Jesus, or just a follower of Jesus who can help disciple you. If you stay isolated you will struggle, but this confession is an attack on the enemy and you are taking real steps to find God’s love for your life.

We are currently in training with YWAM to be missionaries. The introductory course that we are in, Discipleship Training School, is a school that people sometimes go too simply for a time of discipleship. You might look up some information on that because it is a wonderful course in discipleship and dealing with our inner struggles. You can read about it at http://www.ywam.org/contents/get_tra_dts.htm.

Keith, God loves you, intimately. You can accept that or reject it. Believe it and it will change you. Prepare your heart for rain. If you have questions or if there’s a way I can help you find someone to talk to further, you can email me at bwriley4[at]yahoo[dot]com. I’m in England right now, and that is why I didn’t get your comment when you wrote it. I’m 6 hours ahead of CST in the US.

Lastly, remember how the father ran to the prodigal son when he returned home. Remember how God looked for Adam and Eve in the garden and sacrificed for them. Don’t let the enemy tell you God’s love can’t be true.

Oh, Keith, lest you also think that you couldn’t go to some school for missionary training (and again, it isn’t just for people who will go on to be overseas missionaries), please know that there are people in every DTS who would be seen as the misfits of life but who really are just like everyone else, but probably just more honest about it. It is a place to get help, not a place for people who have it all together, because the reality is we all need more of Him!

Finally, you have been hurt by many. Pray that God will help you forgive them, just as He will forgive you. That may be the biggest hurdle to believing in His love. He loves those who hurt you, too. But if that weren’t true, then He couldn’t love you either.

Steve, Jared and Bryan,

Wow, this is all deep. Francoise, interesting. Just a few points to consider about sin and God. A few years ago, I would have wrote a dissertation on all of these ideas and philosophies, but now I will just summarize. God says to confess our sins. And, if we confess our sins he will not remember them anymore. Not only does God forgive, but he forgets. That is something we humans cannot do. We remember our sins and beat ourselves up about them, but God forgets them once we have confessed them. The bible says he casts them as far as the east is from the west and remembers them no more. Pretty cool, huh? You lust after someone and you ask God to forgive you, he does. Then you feel bad about your previous thoughts and you say to God, I am so sorry for having those thoughts earlier….God is confused and says, what thoughts? He has already forgotten them.

If we repeat the same sin, God will re-enroll us in the consequences of that sin and hopefully we will eventually learn or be doomed to repeat it. He says to hide his word in your heart so that you may not sin against him. Keep on studying and memorizing scripture and when temptation attacks, his word will be there to fend off the sin.

What is sin? Is all human nature sin? David was called by God a man after his own heart and he committed murder and adultry????

What is love??? The willingness to die for something or someone? To love them no matter what they do? How do we love our children? Do we love our children even when they do things we tell them not to do? How much more does our creator, God, love us, than we love our own children.

Elect? Wow, i have not heard this argument in a long time, but it is obvious that Steve does not need to be a missionary, because God’s word will reach only who he wants it to whether we have missionaries or not. Why bother since only a few select can go to heaven. Maybe it is the 144,000 that the mormons believe or the jews believe will actually get to be with God? 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes?

I think more like Bryan, I am a Calvinist, but do not believe that there is not a choice. How can we truly love God if we are nothing more than a robot doing what we have been elected (programmed) to do.

And as far as the verse about Esau, God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. He knew before birth the choices that Esau would make and the consequences of those decisions just as he knows who will accept his invitation of eternal life. His elect are the ones the knows will accept him. It is not that he does not love every one and give every man the opportunity to be saved, he just knows in advance because he is omniscient. We are commanded to go to the highways and biways and spread the word.

Steve, ever hear of the unequally yoked verse? What if your wife is not of the elect? Not trying to be mean spirited here, but just curious. Can you love her no matter what? God loves us, no matter what. Agape, unconditional love.

Francoise, if there is no God, how did we come to be? That is very illogical and irrational thought. And, you appear to be very intelligent. I have always thought of someone who proclaimed atheism as dumb and ignorant. I would believe that you were agnostic more than an atheist.

There are many questions and confusing stories in the bible, but we have to interpret it in context and that it does not contradict itself. That is why it is dangerous to pick and choose verses out of the bible and try and answer them as an independant thought instead of in context with the whole bible. Semantics is the key. I can pick any belief and pick verses out of the bible to back up my philosophy while I ignore other verses that may contradict my philosophy. That does not make it right.

Francoise is correct about some of the Old Testament passages. How many times did Abraham pass his wife off to strangers and tell them that she was his sister??? His wife had sex with others??? And of course, Sarah had her handmaiden, Hagar, have sex with Abraham which produced our wild and crazy Muslim brothers.

How many wives and concubines did Solomon have???? Wow, the OT can read like a porno movie? I am not defending Francoise points of view, but we are humans with many faults. Thank God, we have a loving Father who forgives and forgets.

Guys and Gals,
Check out II Tim 2:22……… Adios! WHich translated means “to God”

Hi Keith,

Thanks for sharing your heart with us! I’m sure you’ll be in our prayers, and God will be glorified in bringing healing to you.

God’s promise:

“Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.” James 4:8

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.”
Matthew 7:7

I also have a lot of battles with lust and sexual perversion, and especially with all the Internet porn that is a click away. I’ve been struggling for more years than you’ve been alive, and I’m very worn out from it. Here is a good link dealing with it: http://www.porn-free.org/
Slide down the menu on the left and click “lust”.

I was also at this other link today which talks about the battle between the flesh and the spirit (the Inner Man): http://aibi.gospelcom.net/articles/innermn1.htm
It a great article in two parts, so click for the second part after reading the first.

The key to battling lust and any sin is to be “filled with the Spirit”. The power of sin living in us is nothing compared to the power of God’s Spirit in us. I think we can stay filled with God’s Spirit as we read His Word, pray, and especially as we praise and worship Him through “Psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs” as it says in scripture and in the two part article (link above).

God takes the most damaged situations and heals them into something beautiful. His glory is seen in bringing goodness, beauty, and love out of evil. All through scripture He is seen doing this. When he heals you, then you’ll be able to bring His healing to others in similar situations, and they are countless. Satan is God’s pawn, which God uses to accomplish His own wonderful purposes. God allowed Satan’s evil in torturing and murdering Jesus to save the world from Satan! And He has done, and can still do, much more for us than we can ask or imagine.

Praying for you!
Steve

Bobby,

Election is not something that originated in my mind. Here are 28 verses where God uses it: http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=elect&version1=50&searchtype=all

God uses missionaries to take His Word to His elect. This is such an encouragement to missionaries! No matter how evil and hardened in sin any group of people are, God will regenerate them through His Word if they are His elect! Missionaries plant the seeds of His Word, and God makes them grow into a wonderful harvest.

God specifically stated that His choice of Jacob and rejection of Esau was before they were born or had done anything good or bad. His point is that it does not depend on man’s desire or effort, as the very same chapter 9 of Romans very clearly states. Yes, our choice is involved, but apart from God regenerating us, we will all reject Him.

Here’s the way God saw every one of us before He created the world:

9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written:

“ There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”[b]
13 “ Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;[c]

“ The poison of asps is under their lips”;[d]
14 “ Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”[e]
15 “ Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known.”[f]
18 “ There is no fear of God before their eyes.”[g]

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

I didn’t say few are chosen, Jesus said it. However, the few, though a remnant or small percentage of mankind, will still be countless:

“After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” Revelation 7:9

Regarding loving my wife, I certainly don’t love everything about her. Don’t love a lot of the things that she does, and don’t love a lot of the things she says and does. But I do love her in the sense of want God’s very best for her, which is Himself. I want her to be saved and to become a new creation in Christ. Then, in Heaven, I will certainly love everything about her forever. God loves those whom He created to love. But in what sense are the unbelievers “appointed” to unbelief?:

“Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

“ The stone which the builders rejected

Has become the chief cornerstone,”
and

“ A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.
But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;”
1Peter2

And what about:
Romans 9:22
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,

God hates sin, is under no obligation to love and save sinners, and uses them to accomplish His own good purposes as we saw in His use of the evil Pharoahs.

Psalm 7:11
God is a just judge,And God is angry with the wicked every day.

Fortunately, though I sin everyday, He is not angry with me everyday. He doesn’t see me as wicked, He sees me cleansed and forgiven of all my sins because of the cross, He see me seated and reigning with Christ, and clothed in Christ’s perfect righteousness.

Blessings to you Keith. Don’t give up hope — death is a lie and an abnormality that life can and will conquer if you give it a chance. You may feel as good as dead already, but if you strengthen yourself in the Lord as David did when he was beset by many enemies, you will prevail.

I want to echo Bryan’s words that finding a person or a ministry that can pray for you and disciple you is extremely important. I also want to tell you about a particular kind of prayer ministry that has greatly blessed my life. It’s called Theophostic Prayer Ministry and it originated (though it’s nothing “new” or anti-biblical) in the practice of Dr. Ed Smith who was a licensed Christian counselor for many years.

The basic premise is that most of the emotional pain we face on a daily basis comes not from past memories, but from the lies we believe about those events and about ourselves. During the prayer time, the facilitator can help you to drift back to those painful memories and allow God to speak truth into those memories, thereby replacing the lies with divine truth. We can factually know Jesus loves us, but when we experience the love of Jesus in the midst of our memories, it’s a life-changing experience.

Check out http://www.theophostic.com for more info. If you can’t find anyone who does TPM, at least read “Healing Life’s Hurts” by Dr. Smith. It’s an awesome book that I think could really help you. (No, I’m not affiliated with him in any way — I’m just someone who’s living proof TPM works and I know God has blessed its methods!)

With love, Jared

I have wrestled against this for many years. I have sought after God as well. My father is agnositc but I chose to seek after God. I have forgiven those who have hurt me but it is hard to forgive myself for my short cummings. I have repented of my sins and I continue to strive to overcome, yet the spirit of lust that attacks my mind even when I do not think of such things that should cause it to be. I am not angry against God but against myself for such weakness. Though I know people abuse my kindness I still try to be kind unto others. Dont get me wrong I am not trying to boost of myself but rather feel i am not good enough. I do however know that I have been used by others in the past. As for atheism it is the most arrogant and foolish statement any man can boost as it is the claim that you are god and know everything. You know that thier is no god. That in itself is a religion. I have a friend who had come to relize this and now he says he knows something is out their but does not know what. It is at least a step for him. Anyhow that was off topic. I have destroyed many music cd’s of metal, and heavy metal etc. Many were under christian lable but I felt that the death metal and heavy metal even with that kind of lable were only enforcing the anger inside me. I shall look into the program you sugested to me jaried later when I have a little more time. I do have members in my chruch that I spend time with. Someone who has taught me a great deal in scriptures, prophecy, creationism, oneness vs. trinity (I am sure that one would rily up every one), etc. I have also got small studies into understanding various religions such as Mormons, Islam, Druids, etc. The problem is the only anwser people give me is just pray more or something like that. I do try so but it almost feels as if something more is needed. I just wish I was not so messed up. I can only vaguly remember the men who used me. I sometimes want to completly forget and sometimes want to remember everything so I can at least remeber or figure out who did this to me. I was only four or five years old…. I think I have a lot of blocked out memories cause I had a painful childhood. I feel guilty sometimes for saying that because thier are those who have had it worse and are healing. I dont know I guess I am a coward and weakling…

Keith, what you’ve said only confirms what I was thinking about as I wrote my previous message to you. I don’t believe your problem is that you’re not “trusting God enough” or “reading the Bible enough” or “praying enough”. Those are all canned responses that don’t really get the heart of the matter. I believe your problem is a simple one that affects many Christians, and it is this: you’re missing the experiential power of the living God in your life. You need to have a radical encounter with the Holy Spirit that transforms you and renews your mind to conform to the mind of Christ.

I struggled with several issues, including lust, for years. I’m not perfect now, but I can honestly say that I’m now able to live a fruitful, productive, joy-filled life. Why? Because when you begin to experience the fulness of God’s love, the world changes for you. When His truth gets planted deep in your heart, you can walk by faith in the Spirit in a way you never can otherwise.

Christianity was never meant to be an acknowledgment of facts or concepts. It was supposed to be a holy communion between the Spirit of God and the spirit of man, which in turn will have a profound effect on our minds and bodies and the fruit of our lives. I encourage you with every fiber of my being to seek out an environment where people believe that the Holy Spirit has the power to completely transform you and take you to new realms of glory. You don’t need more information and you don’t need to try harder. You just need a touch from Heaven, so you can be at peace. I pray that when you ask for this, you will receive it as Jesus promised.

Blessings, Jared

The key to what Jared is saying is taking God at His word. This doesn’t mean you have to do a lot more work, but it does mean you have to believe what God says and stop believing what the Enemy says. Just as I wrote above, the truth is that God loves you and gave Jesus so that you can have eternal life. John later writes in 1 John that eternal life is relationship with God. Life = Relationship.

When you accept false intimacy in the form of sexual perversion you are using that as an attempt to find comfort and rejecting the comfort God freely offers. If you continue to say you aren’t worthy, are too weak, are too cowardly, then you are affirming Satan rather than God, who says I accept you if you will accept Me because I love you.

Do you love God? Do you believe He is big enough to solve every problem? Do you think He made a mistake when He made you? It would be wise also to find a counselor. Jared’s suggestions were good. I don’t think you have to actually drift to the memories, but you do need to allow God to speak truth to your heart.

Feel free to email me, Keith.

…. I do believe I love God but sometimes I wonder considering that I dont seem to listen to him enough. I used to be on fire for him. I used to only care about God and nothing else mattered…I met someone who put that fire out……Now I would do almost anything for that fire to burn again….I have been trying to not condenm myself and I do rebuke it in Jesus name when it comes. I sometimes wonder if the problem was because I desired a companion… you know a girlfriend… I wanted to feel normal because of that violation that happened to me… I wanted to feel loved and accepted. At the same time I felt guilty for desireing that. I may have had great trouble with lust but what I wanted was a loving relationship… I know it kind of sounds funny but to me something that would be far more pleasurable then sex with someone you are married to would be to rub her feet, back etc. I would find more satisfaction in serving a wife to make her happy. I have always felt that inside…. I know its silly and I should be more concerned about healing but I sometimes wonder if the reason I fell so deep in the dark was because of that stupid dream…. I should be total focused on God rather then carnal love. I dont know I also have a great anger against women due to my mother…. rather not talk about that. I find myself beaten between to worlds on the subject. I pray that I should once again be spiritualy minded rather then carnaly minded…. Sorry I am such a lemon….

Keith, God made you in His image with a specific purpose in mind. You can choose to see a lemon, but He has a plan for you.

I don’t read any of what you wrote and think it is silly, except where you continue to criticize yourself. I also hear you consistently display an inner anger against many who have wronged you. To be able to come to grips with God’s forgiveness for you you need to forgive others. You can’t do that because the wrongs seem so large, but God can do it through you just as He forgives you.

The longer you continue to focus on yourself the more you will be an idol unto yourself. Accept Him and His plan for you and see what happens. And find someone who isn’t stuck on the other end of a computer screen who will speak and be truth to you in a loving way to help you as you struggle through the renewing of your mind and heart.

An Idol? An idol is usualy something loved a worshiped not hated. I have no idea what he would do with me. It is hard finding someone who will bear to offer a shoulder. People expect everyone to be perfectly happy and nothing wrong 24/7 or bottle up your own troubles so they can complain of thier own. That is why I have always offered a sholder to someone in pain. I feel though that one thing God has told me is to stop striving to be absolutly perfect all the time and just simply try to improve at a more slow but progressive rate. Healing hurts. Perchance this grief I have felt was not so much a feeling of condemnation but stuff being removed from my being. I hate how I have to sit hear and have what feels like glass, rocks, etc. removed from my heart because I was repeatly beat around spiritually. I dont know…. I am tired right now…. been working so much its not even funny.

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