CHARIS SHALOM

Bryan,

Good thoughts. You know from my post last week that I also believe that God still communicates with us. Yes, God communicates with us through his word, but there are other ways as well.

One interesting point (at least to me). Scripture does not teach that God will only communicate through Scripture. Therefore, the belief that God only communicates through Scripture had to come from some source outside of Scripture… hmmm… That seems contradictory to me.

-Alan

I like how Henry Blackaby describes this. God speaks to us through His word, The Holy Spirit, others, circumstances, prayer, etc..

Yes, Kevin, Experiencing God is fabulous.

Alan, great point. That ties in with the thoughts about whether it creates extrabiblical teaching taught as though it were “gospel.”

I think it important for us to attempt to discern the various roles of the Trinity in understanding the interrelation between the Word and the Spirit.

John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Romans 10:17 “So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.”

So we start with the basic understanding that Jesus is the Word, and the Bible is the word of God. This may be a simplistic way to say it theologically, but I understand this to be that in essence the Bible is Jesus talking to us.

So next we go to the role of the Spirit – in John 15:26, Jesus says that the Spirit “will testify of me.”, and also in John 16:13-15, it says the Spirit “will not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak … he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.” Therefore, the Spirit’s role is to point us to Jesus and Jesus’s word.

In Revelation 22:18-19, it is very clear that nothing is to be added to the Bible.

Taking all this together, I believe that the Bible is the entire revelation of Jesus and the Word to us in this lifetime. The Spirit that endwells each believer as Comforter and Teacher leads us to remember and comprehend the truths of the Word, and points us always to Jesus and not his own person of the Trinity.

Thus, God, Jesus and Spirit are all fully God -three in one, but the Spirit will not preempt the teachings of the Bible or go outside the divinely set order to provide new or extra revelations.

Thanks for bringing up the topic Bryan, a good use of my morning devotional time this morning hunting down all those verses.

As one who has been hurt (and had friends hurt even worse) by “God told me to tell you…” I have struggled a little with this. However, I do strongly believe that God is speaking today. Corinthians talks about how some ARE given the gifts of prophecy, teaching, etc. If we are to believe that the gifts of the spirit are still alive and active today, we cannot discredit that God is still speaking to us today – in ways other than through His word, the bible. He created all of creation to speak to us….if only we will listen.

I’ve been through Experiencing God, so I hear what you’re saying. Blackaby had that thing nailed down tight. But I think Dorcas has it right. I believe that the Bible is the only way God speaks to his church today. Why else would you go to the Word to make sure ‘leadings’ or whatever matched up with what he said. Do what is right, do what the Bible says and you won’t have to worry about checking with God first–he’s given you the freedom to do what his Word says. Why do you need anything else?

The reason what you’re talking about, Bryan, is so dangerous is that a necessary end-point of what you’re saying is that God is speaking to you. And if thats true you better write it down quick–and then call the Pope so he can add it to the canon of scripture.

Josh
“…the word of God is not bound.”
–2 Timothy 2:9

Josh, I disagree, as you might imagine. God’s personal voice to you may be just that, personal, and not intended for written revelation for all of mankind. I think God is talking and talking and leading us, just as a shepherd leading sheep, and really has a plan for us each and every day. The danger is when we hear His voice and assume it is for every one else and preach it to everyone thusly. As Paul Burleson calls it, the heresy of personal application.

Do you believe God may be telling you whether or not to work at a certain job? Own a certain home? Take tylenol or not take tylenol on a certain day for a certain headache? Go to the doctor? Marry a certain person? Own a dog or not? Quit your job? This is what I am talking about and questioning. The bible doesn’t speak directly on these things per se, but I believe that God is speaking directly, indivdiually, to people on just these types of issues.

I feel like I need to explain further, but I’ll hold off. Feel free to challenge this or ask questions.

Dorcas and Josh,

I’m not talking about adding to the bible or contradicting the bible. I’m talking about every day living. Walking by faith. Listening to His voice. Experiencing God. Is He still speaking today? I think if we believe that He spoke once with the Bible and stopped talking or just put it on replay, we may be missing out on truly following Him day in and day out. What is the funciton of the Holy Spirit if it all stops and ends with the Bible? Is God speaking to you about the everyday things? I agree with what you’ve written, Dorcas, but I fear how some may apply it to simply live life without really seeking God moment by moment, trusting in Him with all their hearts and leaning not on their own understanding (even their own understanding of His Word).

How does this play out in this discussion:

4Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God. 5Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2 Corinthians 3

Good post Bryan and I agree.
In our recent 90 days of prayer, the 4 women that I pray with decided before we began how we felt God was leading us to pray, or what God would have us pray for ie, the government, our community, our local church, our involvement in missions, as our church has committed to pray for and to seek ways to actively be involved in missions. We believed God would have us FIRST pray.
So we began. We also agreed that in our going to God and asking, He would respond to our prayers. It would be important for us to remain silent and give God time to respond. While this might seem scary for some-for us it was simply a result of praying in faith. Now God has not audibly spoken to us, however in agreement and unity we pray and there has come out of that (actually several weeks later) a unity, a sense that God is speaking to us certain things concerning that prayer. We submitted this to the rest of the women’s prayer group, I, of course along with the other women in this group, communicate with our husbands (how great it is and all that is happening), we also submit to Roy what we believe God is speaking to us.
How sad it would be to pray-and not believe God will answer. Yes, God has spoken to me through the text of the scriptures. He has also spoken to me as I drive my car or when I wake up early in the morning. But I look for Him to, I want Him to, I listen for Him.

Bryan:

Despite my wordiness in answering you at Wade’s blog, I didn’t directly respond to your question. My reponse:

Exactly.

I have heard plenty of folks talk about certain gifts being “easy to imitate” or “abused”. Well, after 45 years every Sunday hearing lessons and sermons, I can assure you there’s lots of teachers out there who don’t have the gift of teaching, and some preachers who don’t have the gift of preaching, either. But I’ve never heard those as being reasons to discontinue those activities.

We seem to acknowledge the priesthood of the believer, but perhaps in name only. And I don’t go along with that change in the 2000 BF&M, either.

God can handle excess. Michal didn’t like David’s excessive exuberance, but God did. And like I said, I prefer wildfire over no fire at all.

And for what it’s worth, I don’t feel like I was anywhere near the believer or dsiciple I am, now, before I got involved reading Wade’s blog in January 2006. Iron really does sharpen iron.

And we know what ease in Zion, and a little folding of the hands in rest, gets us.

Nice blog. I’ll be back.

Bob, thank you. And thanks for coming by because I too crave the iron and I have found your writing and discussion to be wise counsel. I need older godly men in my life, whether electronically or otherwise, and since we will be out of the States for the next five months, blogging is better than nothing.

Bryan wrote:I’m not talking about adding to the bible or contradicting the bible.

Maybe not explicitly, but thats what it boils down to in the end. And probably not contradicting the bible so much either as no Christian would do that. But there’s a difference between obeying the Word of God and living what it says and claiming that you get personal guidance from God outside of reading his Word.

Josh
“…the word of God is not bound.”
–2 Timothy 2:9

Well I am darn sure older.

I’m moving to Macedonia. I just read in Scripture that God revealed to Paul that he was to go to Macedonia. It was even written down in Scripture, so it must be for everyone.

Sorry… the logic doesn’t hold, even in Scripture. God will never contradict what he has revealed to us in Scripture. But, we do serve a living God, and he is still communicating. Scripture is one type of special revelation, but it is not the only type of special revelation.

-Alan

Great point, Alan. It almost seems like a cop out to suggest that it is the only form of revelation. I’ve got the Word, why do I need to seek Him in prayer? Why do I need to think about God’s will for my life?

And, it also would suggest that only those who are most educated in the Word can truly live a spiritual life. No wonder some are so focused on “right” theology.

Josh, do you not ever get any personal guidance from God? What do you do when you seek God’s will for your life? Why would you ever listen to preaching, teaching, or read any book beside the Bible? What do you ever learn the 23.5 hours a day or more that you aren’t reading and studying the bible?

Bryan (and Josh),

Every Southern Baptist pastor I’ve ever known agrees with you, Bryan. I’ve never met the SBC pastor who didn’t believe that they were called by God into the ministry, yet I’ve never found the one who pointed to a verse that said, “Thus saith the Lord, Paul Littleton shall surrender to pastoral ministry at the age of sixteen.” But there is something that goes on within us that we cannot shake and we attribute to God in our calling.

Likewise, I’ve yet to hear of the SBC church that called a pastor who said, “We’re going with our own understanding on this one and we say, ‘Yea.’” They all will say that their vote was nothing other than affirming what God had already decided and has spoken into their hearts. They actually spend considerable time praying about that sort of decision asking for that sort of guidance and in the end trust that such guidance God has given to them. It is the extrabiblical speaking of God, yet no one claims that it is contra-biblical.

Bryan, let me add one more thing to what you have so ably written: I believe the Reformers were right when they said that the Bible is not enough – that even in reading the Bible we must have the Spirit illuminating our minds and hearts to what God is saying. I’m afraid that there is an undercurrent within the SBC that believes that all we need is the Bible, a good mind and perhaps a dictionary on occasion and we can figure it all out. I say poppycock. Apart from the Spirit working in our hearts and minds as we read the Scriptures we will come away either empty or self-deceived.

This is what I do brother and I’d like you to take it like its meant–a description of what I do.

I sleep about six hours and the rest of the time I think about the Bible. (.5 hours isn’t enough) I compare other books I read, to the Bible. I write about things I read in the Bible. I try to work the Bible into everything I do. I sleep the sweet sleep of a man who is a Christian and who has given himself to the Lord. If I can swing it I dream about the Bible. Are we seeing a pattern here?

I don’t have to seek God’s will in the air bro. because its all written down in The Book. Thats about as personal as it gets. You want to ‘know and do God’s will’? Open up His Word and read it. It’s all laid out for you.

Go ahead and shake your head and mourn my ‘lack of spirituality’if you like–you’re not the first or the last–but I’ll stick with the Word over feelings, hunches, and leadings any day of the week. I spent nearly two decades spinning my wheels doing that and I ain’t going back to it.

Please note: text is always more harsh than talking.

Josh
“…the word of God is not bound.”
–2 Timothy 2:9

Josh, I don’t think what you’ve written is harsh at all. And, I won’t shake my head and mourn anything about what you believe. Did you read Paul’s comment? What do you think?

BTW, at least for me listening to the voice of God is not seeking God’s will in the air. It is seeking God.

Paul, you’ve just nimbly given a great example to what I’m trying to say. Thank you.

And, Josh, given your time in the Word, help me out with the application of 2 Corinthians 3 to this discussion. Help me (and Paul) out with how to know from the Word alone that I am called to be a missionary or that he is called to be a pastor. I’m not being sarcastic. I’m trying to understand your point of view. It will be hard for me to understand because God has spoken to me in a number of different ways, but I will definitely listen. Also, who is talking to me when I hear His voice?

I’m far from “Charismatic” or “Pentecostal.” But God has clearly spoken to me in many forms. If something were to condradict the Bible then I would know it is not from God.

Kevin, you hit on the key, I think. I’ve “heard from God” lots of ways, but He’s never ever gone against what He has written down for us.

If the Bible is sufficient, as well as inerrant, then we don’t need any “special revelation”. We need illumination and guidance.

Just a point of reference… everything that Scripture says about Scripture is written about what we call the “Old Testament”. So, when Paul says, “All Scripture is God-breathed…”, he was talking abou the “Old Testament”. He thought the “Old Testament” was inspired and profitable for teaching, rebuke, correction, and instruction in righteousness.

Yet, for some reason, God continued to communicate with Paul outside of those Scriptures. (Acts 13:1-3, 16:9, etc.) None of these communications from God to Paul contradicted Scripture. Simiarly, Paul did not apply any of these communications from God to anyone else.

God still communicates with us through Scripture. God also still communicates with us in other methods as well. He communicates in ways that do not contradict Scripture, that are not covered by Scripture, and that are personal. Scripture is still the filter through which we filter and judge any communication that we receive.

Now, some are saying that God does not communicate to us outside of Scripture. How do you know that? What tells you that God does not communicate with us today except through Scripture?

Bryan, I’ll try to keep this civil. I try to avoid discussions like this on the internet but I’ve ‘opened my mouth’ so I’ll stick with it.

And, Josh, given your time in the Word

I’m afraid this does come across as sarcastic bro. but I’ll give you the benefit of a doubt.

Help me (and Paul) out with how to know from the Word alone that I am called to be a missionary or that he is called to be a pastor.

Um, read the end of Matthew where it says “Go make disciples…”?

Are you able to be a missionary? Can you handle going to other places and living in other cultures? I can’t. I’ve been overseas and I couldn’t stand it. Are you able to be a pastor? Can you speak clearly and show people what the Word has to say to them? If you can do it then by all means…

The reason I am so adamant about this is because when you restrict ministry to a club that is ‘called’ you send the message that every other Christian can just hire it done. Everyone who claims Christ as Lord and Savior is called. If Jesus had been from Oklahoma he would have said “All you all go on…” Some are gifted as pastors and teachers, sure, but they’re MADE that way man. They can’t help it. Paul preaches because the gospel burns hot in his belly and he can’t stand not telling people about Jesus. You want to be a missionary because you know there are folks like him who stand in the pulpit and proclaim the Word of God will never reach but you’ve said, “Here I am, send me.”

This goes back to what Bob said about bad preachers, those men were called in the same way as good ones weren’t they? They just aren’t any good at it and probably should have stuck with driving the van or something. By the same token, there are a great many who don’t go into the ministry but probably should have because they lacked a certain religious experience and so ignored their gifts and the call of God. This, I believe, is the very reason we are so short of churches. Folks are just waiting, paralyzed by a fear that they’re going to do something God didn’t give them permission to do when if they’d just crack the Book and look it up they’d see, “Oh yeah, Go make disciples. I can do that.”

Josh
“…the word of God is not bound.”
–2 Timothy 2:9

Josh, I hear you, and what is interesting is that I absolutely agree that the professionalization of the ministry is a bad thing. I definitely don’t limit ministry to a club. It’s wide open and part of our ministry is to mobilize others and help them see that there is more to mission work than just supporting the IMB or being an evangelist.

We are all called to be missionaries. But, how am I supposed to know where to go? No where in the Bible does it say go to Arkansas, Oklahoma, Zimbabwe, or anywhere else specifically. That was my point. I see more who point only to the good book as being more about professionalization of ministry than those I know who walk by faith every day.

I’m glad you take my word on the sarcasm, because I definitely was not trying to be sarcastic. I do this (blog) to learn and to communicate, not to be mean or cause harm. Please do keep it civil; that’s all it should be.

I’m still interested in you responding to some of the other writers. They have made good points. And, honestly, your points are not all scripture, so am I not to listen or to consider it at all as counsel when you don’t use scripture?

Your last paragraph is very good and I agree. I think it is not inconsistent with what I am saying and don’t believe we have to conclude thusly by beginning with what you are saying here.

Alan, great point. It is a scary one to get into, however. It can lead to all kinds of questioning of the canon. Just like Dorcas talking about Rev 22. Was that referring to the whole bible as we know it or just the letter John was writing then? And, clearly, none of the places where any of the NT writers were referring to scripture did they know to refer to the bible as we have it today. Could God have intended that in His inspiration? Sure, but how do we know that from the scripture itself?

But Josh, am I at Faith Baptist church because God led me here or because they just happened to be looking for a pastor and I just happened to be the one they contacted?

Also, there is nothing in a person being “called” to pastoral ministry or missions that says that there isn’t also a call for others to be plumbers and accountants. Luther believed that there were those whom God called to cobble shoes. I don’t do what I do simply because “I can.” Trust me. If I could do something else and be at peace with God about that I’d be doing it. There are plenty of other jobs out there that can use abilities in rhetoric and caring for people that don’t have the pressures of pastoral ministry. I taught Public Communications on the college level and had all the students I wanted to give care to. But if I did that the rest of my life I would not be at peace with God or my own disobedience. It seems to me that the apostle Paul understood his apostleship to the Gentiles to be a calling from God, not simply something he was good at.

If scripture is truly God-breathed, then it says wasn’t limited to what Paul was thinking when He wrote it.

Having been a Presbyterian for many years, I can tell you their answer … and they are even tougher on the Canon that Baptists are. They told me simply that the Canon is closed, and that the Bible is not only inerrant and authoritative, but it’s sufficient.

I believe that. Were I to think that God did “special revelation” today … on matters at the level of scripture, then I’d have to believe the 66 books are not all-sufficient. And I don’t.

Sentence one, last comment: …then WHAT it says wasn’t limited…..

Bob, I absolutely agree that it’s not limited at all to what the writers thought at the time, but I think the question is, in the context of this post, how do we know that God intended those verses to mean the exact canon we have today via those verses? How do we know that? Aren’t we relying on something more than just the scripture itself? I think that is Alan’s point.

How do we know: Faith. That’s the substance.

We either consider the Bible to be God’s word, or we don’t. If is it, then it only makes sense that God would not give us an incomplete basis for our faith. If you open the door to the need for further “special revelation”, then there will never be an end to it .

I haven’t seen, in my 40 some years if imperfect followship, a time when it wasn’t complete and up to the task. I’d have to ask, then, why we would need more.

Plus .. none of us ever get to 100% of what’s written in the Bible. Why WOULD God want to give us other revelation?

I want to be far removed from any speculation that the Bible is in any way insufficient; I simply believe it is complete in its timelessness and applicability.

Let me hasten to add that God does tell us stuff but IMO it is never in conflict with, nor even on the same level as, Scripture. There have been times that I have known or sensed things I shouldn’t have been able to, and in fact the first 2 times I ever spoke in an unknown tongue were so miraculous that it left no doubt it was an intervention by God.

You can read about it here.

Bob,

I agree completely with your last statement.

What you just described is the theological definition of “special revelation”. Special revelation does not mean above Scripture or replacing Scripture. Nor does special revelation mean that Scripture is not sufficient. Special revelation simply means “God does tell us stuff”. And, as I’ve tried to say before and as you just said, that stuff “is never in conflict with, nor even on the same level as, Scripture.”

-Alan

Yes, Bob, what you just said and what Alan said in response is right in line with what I’m talking about. And it also is in line with what everyone, including you, had said in earlier comments, with the exception of Josh.

Remember first that I said this was a discussion post. Second, I don’t know what the term special revelation means. It may have a certain connotation for you, but it is a new term to me. For me, when God speaks to me, it is personal revelation that I must test against the Scripture and a host of other things. (I’ve heard a number of great baptist (and other) sermons about how to know if God is speaking to you.) If it is God’s voice it will never be against or above Scripture. I don’t consider it above scripture and it must not conflict with Scripture.

However, if it is God’s revelation to me, then it is God’s voice. It’s still GOD talking, and must be obeyed, but just on a personal level. It isn’t above Scripture because almost all of the time it is a personal application for my life and not intended for the Church/world as a whole. Clearly if God tells me to go to England, that doesn’t mean all should go to England.

At least that is how I’ve experienced things. And, I’m still curious to hear from Josh, if it isn’t God, then who am I listening to? Are all who believe they hear from God personally deceived?

This may be one of those times when we’re arguing the same side of the argument. Kind of like both tennis players being on the same side of the net.

Many years ago, I recall folks discussing further revelation to people, in effect continuing the canon of Scripture. People sort of continuing God’s word with new information. Similar to the LDS. There was a great emphasis in the church … I was a Presbyterian at the time … on the fact that the canon is closed and that there wasn’t any “special revelation” these days. Speculation that rises to the level of God’s word. IMO, we can never be 100% certain that it’s God we’re hearing, which is fine in my scheme of thinking, as that would eliminate the need for faith.

It doesn’t take much faith to say that stealing is wrong, for instance. But it sure would, to write a check for all your retirement savings and send it off to a missionary.

My comment about being far removed from speculation: I love defending the faith, but my Adamic nature wants to exercise control and authority over the Bible. I have to slap that down pretty hard and remind myself that God wrote it to reveal stuff to us. So I get a little defensive, I guess.

There have been times when I have known things I couldn’t have known. Once a lady asked me to pray for her son, who’d gone into homosexuality (after HS years of zealous Christianity). Mid-prayer, the idea hit me that her turmoil over this had kept her from doing something God was calling her to, and I stopped praying and told her to look at me; and I asked her what that was. She looked as if I’d confessed to shooting J.R., and said yes there was. We talked about that, and she left victorious, after realizing the devil was attacking her son to keep her from doing what God had called her to do.

There was an even more stunning case a few years later on a street corner in Bauska, Latvia.

Oh, yeah, God tells us things. I think He does that when He knows we’ll do something about it. He can do that without opening the canon.

Sorry. I seem to’ve written another book.

I like it, Bob. I think sometimes we aren’t sure where someone is coming from and we make assumptions and then we write to counterpoint the argument we assume they are making. And, because often Baptists greatly fear this thing called “God speaking to you personally” or messing around with the canon, that any time anyone raises the Holy Ghost they start arguing. I think i’ll post again and ask a few more questions.

[...] response to my last post on the Holy Spirit and listening to God’s voice, a reader and commenter, Josh, wrote: But there’s a difference between obeying the Word of God [...]

It seems I have pushed a hot button with regard to your ministry Paul. My apologies to you…but I still think that our churches suffer because of this fear of messing up that I was talking about a post or two ago. (Good blog by the way. I even agreed with some of it.)

Bryan, in all fairness, I was not writing a position paper, merely answering a question and in that answer I used as much scripture as probably any of these other comments. Dorcas is the only one here who’s nailed down her comments with text in hand and it appears that she’s said her piece. (A good practice if you ask me.) Except for Alan, who at least commented on his reference and you who merely pasted a piece of 2 Corinthians for us to muse over. Even Bob, whose comments always garner respect from me, supported most of what he said with experience and a fair dose of common sense.

The reality of it is that the one thing I purposely left out of my comments is this: of course the Holy Spirit illuminates scripture, otherwise its just an old book. I’ve blogged about it a bunch and to me its a given. But you guys ARE talking about extra-biblical revelation–which is why I spoke up when I did–and thats a pretty well-worn path to destruction.

Josh
“…the word of God is not bound.”
–2 Timothy 2:9

Josh, I don’t guess I have a clue what you mean by extra-biblical revelation. What I’m talking about is God directing the path of an individual in an every day way. Proverbs 3:5-6. I often don’t quote scripture because it is plain to those who know scripture the basis of what I am writing because it is a quote or a paraphrase of scripture (directing the path…). Do you hear God’s voice on a daily basis over every day things or does He, in your opinion, work in that way at all? Perhaps I am just misunderstanding you, and you are misunderstanding me, because you are assuming I am saying something I am not and arguing against it. I don’t know.

Josh, I see legalism as being the thing that messes more people up and makes them fear messing up. And, you mention common sense. Where does real common sense, at least about spiritual things, come from? If it doesn’t come from God then it is folly.

Please define extra-biblical revelation. I don’t think I’ve talked about that at all, at least not in the sense of revelation intended for the Church in the same way the Bible is.

Josh,

I don’t know about it being a “hot button.” I’m not all riled up or anything. I’m simply agreeing with Bryan that there is guidance that God gives us that is outside of direct statements in Scripture. It is all to be tested by Scripture and subject to it as far as possible. I think the Kansas City prophets were kooks and that’s not what anyone here is advocating. Nevertheless, as the name of your own blog indicates, God is not bound and I would say that he is not bound to act strictly through his word but is free to act and speak in other ways as well. His speaking is always consistent.

But I am no deist and your comments seem to lean in that direction: that God has already said all he needed to say and now, outside of Scripture, he has gone mute and can sit by and watch it all unfold. You may not be saying that exactly, but what you are saying can (and for some has) certainly lead there. So, there are dangers on both sides. I think what Bryan has presented is a position in between the two extremes and I think it is a good word and one that I have found to be true to Scripture and to my own experience (Acts 13:2; Romans 1:1; 11:3; 1 Cor. 1:1; 2 Cor. 1:1; Eph. 1:1; Col. 1:1; 1 Tim. 1:1; 2:7; 2 Tim. 1:1; Heb. 5:4).

Thanks, Paul.

Ask Paul about legalism Bryan and about all the folks from Rhema bible institute or ORU up his way that would agree with some of the ideas you’ve presented. “The Lord Told Me…” and off I go. Thats the most legalistic bunch I’ve ever encountered–far worse than your average So. Baptist.

As the man said, there’s dangers on both sides and I think we’re all splitting the hair pretty fine. And that deism crack was really a stretch I think.

The good thing is that it appears that we are examining our beliefs about this rather than just rolling around in them. Good stuff.

Josh
“…the word of God is not bound.”
–2 Timothy 2:9

Perhaps we need a post on the dangers of prejudices, prejudgments, overgeneralizations, stereotypes, and throwing away the baby with the bathwater because I didn’t say you were being a legalist or trying to group anyone in. I was just stating an opinion about another danger for Christians. Yep, there are legalists in every group and I’m one from time to time, too.

[...] Dad’s Matter! An example and a warning about what happens when the Sovereignty of God collides with the charismatism of Blackaby. Open [...]

[...] This post by Bryan Riley on the topic of living a life guided by the Holy Spirit is definitely worth reading. Great discussion! [...]

[...] bit of a street fight with some of my brethren and sist-ren who want to impose their definition of How God Speaks on others—even to the point of making it a requirement for salvation. (Just now, I was tempted to [...]

Oh, man, I’m dying to get into this. I tried bringing it up at Molly’s place, and then she shut it down. (Maybe that’s why??)

I won’t be able to read until probably next week, though; busy weekend. I command all of you to stick around until then as I know I will want to discuss!

There was a book that first came out back in 1980 called Decision Making and the Will of God that helped to make the Bible only quite popular among evangelicals. I think that Blackaby, with Experiencing God, helped to bring a needed balance.

Although the question you pose is not totally based on one’s view of continuationism or cessationism, cessationists would definitely tend more towards the Bible only view.

It is a very important question, though, in my opinion. Christianity, as I understand it, is about a personal relationship with God. What good is a personal relationship if He doesn’t keep speaking to you in personal ways? However, this must be harmonized with the equally important doctrine of the sufficiency of Scripture. I believe this is possible. Scripture gives us all of the eternal principles. Current day Holy Spirit guidance helps us in the application of those principles. And the Holy Spirit never contradicts what He has already revealed in Scripture.

David, your last paragraph, with just a few words, says very well what I tried to say. Thank you.

Marcia, you working girl, you. You don’t need sleep… just throw your two cents in.